Gun "control" - to protect or disarm the citizens?

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The issue is not the belief in God, it is the belirf in inherent rights. Among them are the rights to life and liberty, in the preservation of both life and liberty people are empowered to use the tools that best enable them them to preserve those rights, including but not limited to firearms. A very simple concept. Our constitution prevents govenment from barring people from access to those tools.

You're wrong. I don't need an extra penis, neither do I get off to see people or animals suffer. I just don't want to be a helpless sheep! Since criminals and oppressors always have firearms, the right to own one is inseparable from the right to self-defence.



I don't know what you mean.



Yes, zip guns, that would eventually go off in your face or old muzzle loaders. Them you can build at home with great efforts and they will be so good for self-defence...



Well, not everything is good in Sweden; not the gun laws, not the freedom (or outlaw) of speech, not the drug laws and not the attitude towards aspies, just to mention four things.



He's a good actor and was or is president of the NRA. I don't know him in person, so I can't tell if he's a real hero or not.

Heston was a c***. For God's sake, he turned up at NRA pro-gun rally shortly after Columbine, as well as in Flint after another school shooting. Is that the work of a sensitive caring man? He says the NRA can go wherever they want in America, but does that mean they can waltz right up to Denver (not so far from Littleton, and Columbine High School), even when the mayor asks him, out of decency, not to come?

Okay, a little riddle, as you couldn't figure out those two things.

The first is the speech of idiot's, no?
Yet sprinkle it on the ground, and things will grow.
It smells so bad, especially in light,
But plants love it just right.

The second is Legion with so many uses.
Without it, nothing would run despite our abuses.
Nothing of our conveyances, I must clarify,
They need it like water, but if we drink it, we die.

Militia, militia, up against the wall,
Who's the biggest boogyman of them all?
One known to you used these two,
And killed a lot of people, and the blame hit you.

I, of course, do not really condone the usage of these two combined, except when absolutely necessary, like guns.

Tell me, Litigious, has Sweden banned these two? I doubt it.

The NRA Annual Convention was held in Denver after the the punks shot up the highschool at Columbine, Heston was President of the NRA. The NRA acknowledeged the tradegy and curtailed the convention. I do not recall a shooting in Flint , if there was, it is too bad they missed that blimp Michael Moore.

Ironic that you say that. That shooting in Flint was covered in Bowling for Columbine. Actually, gun ownership in Canada is as high as it is in the US, but do they have as many shootings?

And do THEY have a second amendment?

I guess that's why I am unfamiliar with the incident...Moore is a propagandist nothing more. I did look it up one fist grader shot another, that particular site blamed welfare reform...I have yet to see a single site or person blame the shooter or his parent for not teaching him right and wrong. No, its the gun's fault, no, its because he is poor, no, its because his mother has to work now...BS all of it, it is because, no one ever taught him actions have consequences and it is wrong to kill your classmate.

I didn't know Canada even had a constitution, much less that it had been amended. I do, know they didn't fight for their independence in a Revolution as ue did...yep my ancestors took part in that little exercise...had been here since before 1640...

I cannot say Michael Moore is not prejudiced, but he shows us the other side of the news. He makes propaganda, but so does the government.

That's about what Victoria Police (Aus) get. And what I said is true, that SSAA(Vic) used to hire their metropolitan range out to police for official practice, but refused them (foregoing cash income) because the police could not hit the targets and were damaging equipment with their misses.

I think its scary that police walk the streets with sidearms they do not know how to use.

If our "buy back" is anything to go by, most americans would hand back some guns in token compliance. Most people I know have "off paper" guns.

Did you see the reation to Charlton Heston's speach when he said ... "You can take my gun ... out of my cold, dead hands".

If a government does not trust its citizens enough to allow them firearms, should we trust that government?

I can barely trust myself with a firearm!

One of the better things about living in Australia is that mistrust of the Government is part of Australia's national mindset.

BTW, Bazza, can you solve my riddle?

Another thing with the police here in Sweden is that they are allowed to use "explosive" ammunition. It's illegal to hunt with it because if they don't kill the animals, they're fearfully wounded. The military isn't allowed to use it either, because it's against the war laws. But the police, who fires 50 rounds a year, is...

Most people here unfortunately haven't illegal guns, except for criminals. Very few otherwise law abiding citizens have unlicensed arms. The only one I know of personally is a crazy red neck neonazi...



Yes! Impressive. They're not cowards like the Europeans.



Of course not. Gun laws are made to protect the government from the people's rage, not to protect the citizens from each other.

Sorry Litigious after some events in the US I have had to rethink my postion on
the 2nd admendment I nolonger support household use nuclear fusion weapons.
Atomic Fission weapons should be all a person is allowed to own. I mean I have never
been in a fight that a small 5-kiloton atomic weapon could not get the job done.
Granted if I move to West Texas I may change my mind.

As long there's any firearm, people would accidentally and purposely get killed, be it by civilians or by stupid or abusive cops or military, it doesn't matter. What matter's is, that if every civilian owned a gun and knew how to use it, the people could be killed, but never oppressed. The criminals would be more terrified than the law abiding, because the law abiding are always in majority and could always slaughter the criminal scum. A dictator maybe probably couldn't be defeated, but he would just have a wasteland to "rule" over, if he tried to oppress the people.
As criminals and suspect government (actually a pleonasm) always will have firearms, the civilian must have it too, if he doesn't want to be a helpless sheep.

Europeans also mistrust the government, even the naïve Swedes, but do they mistrust enough or do anything about it? No. Do the Aussies?

Are you talking about McVeigh?

OK, I can agree with you on that.

Obliquely.