Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

Why do Fundies have such a HUGE Persecution Complex?

Page 9 of 10 [ 158 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

12 Jan 2012, 6:01 am

ruveyn wrote:
91 wrote:
@LKL

It is from a report that the Vatican Observer brought to the attention of the UN Human Rights Council last year.

Statement released by the Vatican Observer:
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/secre ... om_en.html



That screed logically defends the right of un-religion with the same logic. If denial of G-D is a matter of conscience it must be permitted and defended.

I have no argument with people who deny G-D. If one reads the Book of Job carefully one will conclude that G-D, if He exists at all, is a Prick. And if He does not exist, then so what?


ruveyn


Do the members of your synagogue know you speak of the Lord in such disrespectful term? :P

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



visagrunt
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,118
Location: Vancouver, BC

12 Jan 2012, 1:27 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
I don't see the comment as meaningful. The OP likely refers to the "narrow western experience of Christianity", and all of the examples and speculation given certainly does. Visagrunt didn't need to be alerted. Visagrunt really didn't need to comment either, and probably shouldn't have if he had nothing really to say.

Heck, given Christianity's efforts as a missional religion and a large religion, this statistic being true(assuming it is) isn't even shocking. If atheists went around the world trying to spread their beliefs with equal intensity, a much higher percentage of them would probably be killed for their beliefs because atheism is a lot less well-liked than Christianity.


Sorry if my point got buried under sarcasm. I should know better when posting with my fellow irony-impaired commenters.

I was just sick and tired of the sniping back and forth between pandabear and iamnotaparakeet.

Orwell wrote:
This refers to religiously motivated hate crimes, which are not necessarily killings. Vandalism and graffiti are counted here, and that statistic is only including the US.

Not endorsing 91's statistic (I think we all know his record of completely wrong facts), but your statistic does not necessarily contradict 91's claim.


I think that there is a legitimate point here. The thread title is about "fundies" persecution complex. Well, it seems to me that this is very much a US phenomenon. The experience of religiously motivated crime in the US suggests that Jews have a lot more to complain about than evangelical Christians do. But it is the latter that are claiming persecution as a political device in domestic politics. (While we Jews tend to rely on persecution in international politics).


_________________
--James


ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

12 Jan 2012, 1:43 pm

visagrunt wrote:

I think that there is a legitimate point here. The thread title is about "fundies" persecution complex. Well, it seems to me that this is very much a US phenomenon. The experience of religiously motivated crime in the US suggests that Jews have a lot more to complain about than evangelical Christians do. But it is the latter that are claiming persecution as a political device in domestic politics. (While we Jews tend to rely on persecution in international politics).


No one is out to kill Fundies, even if they are pestiferous nuisances. However there are many Muslims out to nail Jewish a**es.

ruveyn



techstepgenr8tion
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,682
Location: 28th Path of Tzaddi

12 Jan 2012, 3:06 pm

Because fundies are every bit as head-strong and self-assured that their right as lefties are. If you're 'right' and you're ideas are being attacked by 'wrong' ideas more often than not - you're going to perceive yourself as persecuted.

One thing that is interesting at least; go through Yahoo news articles and see what equally boombastic comments or criticisms, both right leaning and left-leaning, get in terms of thumbs up or thumbs down they have in relationship to each other. If you can forget your either side for a minute and read them you do see a significant tilt - you can actually count that many of the strongly-worded posts that are 75% positive and 25% negative ticked are one political philosophy, the ones that are maybe 33% positive and 66% negative are the other. A few people are able to get better responses but they do so seemingly by keeping a very simple post and hiding their colors.


_________________
The loneliest part of life: it's not just that no one is on your cloud, few can even see your cloud.


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

12 Jan 2012, 3:22 pm

I'm not sure if anyone's brought this point up yet, but fundies have had a disproportionate degree of political influence in government at all levels, despite their comparatively low numbers, often at the expense of more numerous mainline denominations. That alone hardly makes fundies a discriminated against group.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



LKL
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Age: 50
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,402

12 Jan 2012, 4:27 pm

91 wrote:
@LKL

It is from a report that the Vatican Observer brought to the attention of the UN Human Rights Council last year.

Statement released by the Vatican Observer:
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/secre ... om_en.html

This is the report title:
Aid to the Church in Need, Religious Freedom in the World – Report 2010

@Vex

My statistic was world wide.

here's the citation from your link:
(2) Cfr., Aid to the Church in Need, Religious Freedom in the World – Report 2010; Conference Persecution of Christians organized by the Commission of the Bishops’ Conferences of the European Community, the European Parliamentary Groups of the European People’s Party and the European Conservatives and Reformist’s Group on October 10, 2011

After a brief (~5 mins) search, I can't find a summary anywhere showing the actual numbers of christians vs. other religionists killed, in what events, and where. If anyone has time/access to that data, I would be interested in seeing it.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

12 Jan 2012, 6:46 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Do the members of your synagogue know you speak of the Lord in such disrespectful term? :P

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Of course. I make no effort to hide it. And it is not disrespectful to be truthful.

God knows He is a Prick (assuming He exists) and my saying or not saying it changes nothing.

ruveyn



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

12 Jan 2012, 9:45 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Do the members of your synagogue know you speak of the Lord in such disrespectful term? :P

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Of course. I make no effort to hide it. And it is not disrespectful to be truthful.

God knows He is a Prick (assuming He exists) and my saying or not saying it changes nothing.

ruveyn


Yes, but his three major fan clubs are filled with people who can really take offense at that sort of thing.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

12 Jan 2012, 10:29 pm

visagrunt wrote:
Sorry if my point got buried under sarcasm. I should know better when posting with my fellow irony-impaired commenters.

It didn't get buried. I knew you were trying to signal something. I ignored that because that very posting style pisses me off.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

13 Jan 2012, 5:37 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Yes, but his three major fan clubs are filled with people who can really take offense at that sort of thing.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That is their problem, not mine. People should only be offended by what is harmful to them.

ruveyn



pandabear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,402

13 Jan 2012, 9:14 am

visagrunt wrote:
I was just sick and tired of the sniping back and forth between pandabear and iamnotaparakeet.



:? Sniping? Us?

Iamnotaparakeet and I were enjoying an intellectually stimulating exchange of ideas and....uh....

:oops: Okay, never mind us. Please carry on... :oops:



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

13 Jan 2012, 3:32 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Yes, but his three major fan clubs are filled with people who can really take offense at that sort of thing.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That is their problem, not mine. People should only be offended by what is harmful to them.

ruveyn


They tend to consider defending the Almighty (as if he really needs defending!) their business.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



visagrunt
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,118
Location: Vancouver, BC

13 Jan 2012, 4:31 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
It didn't get buried. I knew you were trying to signal something. I ignored that because that very posting style pisses me off.


But you didn't ignore it. You spoke quite specifically to it.

But I am used to you exposing your own hypocrisy for the purpose of point scoring. Truly, it's no wonder that you and pandabear we're at it. At least he has the good manners to acknowledge it.


_________________
--James


DentArthurDent
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,884
Location: Victoria, Australia

13 Jan 2012, 7:37 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Orwell wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
Open question.


You really want an answer to that? How about, because of the blasted persecution of them? Even online with bozos doing character assassination and belittlement and so much other crap, it happens. In schools, it happens. On jobs, it happens. In mission fields, many Christians are often murdered even today. In the days of the Early Church, tens of thousands of Christians were killed in front of stadium audiences each year for the entertainment of sadistic wackos.

Um... you're delusional. I'm a Christian who is in academia, works with scientists, is based in a biology department (the groups stereotypically most anti-religion) and I am not "persecuted" for being religious. Persecution that happened 1900 years ago is hardly a justification for continuing paranoia and victim mentality today.


Yes, you're also a go-with-the-flow type person who's also a theistic evolutionist, so you're not as prone to "make waves" in your environment. You're accepted because you aren't considered a threat and can be used as an asset in debates since you can be enumerated among those able to accept contradictory notions well.


It has nothing to do with 84 not being considered a threat, or that he does not make waves (in fact I bet he does make waves whenever he perceives poor critical thought posturing as good science). It has everything to do with peer respect, something that a creationist will rightly never receive in any scientific forum other than a pseudoscience one. Evolution is a scientific theory not an unsubstantiated hypothesis or brainless idea. Evolution is fundamental to the understanding of life on earth, therefore people who brainwash young minds into believing this highly developed and substantiated theory is a scientific conspiracy designed to hide the "truth" of creation, should at the least be prosecuted (if not persecuted) for child abuse.


_________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams

"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

13 Jan 2012, 8:40 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Orwell wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
Open question.


You really want an answer to that? How about, because of the blasted persecution of them? Even online with bozos doing character assassination and belittlement and so much other crap, it happens. In schools, it happens. On jobs, it happens. In mission fields, many Christians are often murdered even today. In the days of the Early Church, tens of thousands of Christians were killed in front of stadium audiences each year for the entertainment of sadistic wackos.

Um... you're delusional. I'm a Christian who is in academia, works with scientists, is based in a biology department (the groups stereotypically most anti-religion) and I am not "persecuted" for being religious. Persecution that happened 1900 years ago is hardly a justification for continuing paranoia and victim mentality today.


Yes, you're also a go-with-the-flow type person who's also a theistic evolutionist, so you're not as prone to "make waves" in your environment. You're accepted because you aren't considered a threat and can be used as an asset in debates since you can be enumerated among those able to accept contradictory notions well.


It has nothing to do with 84 not being considered a threat, or that he does not make waves (in fact I bet he does make waves whenever he perceives poor critical thought posturing as good science). It has everything to do with peer respect, something that a creationist will rightly never receive in any scientific forum other than a pseudoscience one. Evolution is a scientific theory not an unsubstantiated hypothesis or brainless idea. Evolution is fundamental to the understanding of life on earth, therefore people who brainwash young minds into believing this highly developed and substantiated theory is a scientific conspiracy designed to hide the "truth" of creation, should at the least be prosecuted (if not persecuted) for child abuse.


You don't think laughing derisively at them isn't enough?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

13 Jan 2012, 9:09 pm

visagrunt wrote:
But I am used to you exposing your own hypocrisy for the purpose of point scoring.

Visagrunt, there is no hypocrisy involved. Even further, there is no "point scoring" against a person who has literally made no argument, but rather just made a pathetic snide comment rather than being vocal and open in redirecting the conversation.

Even further, I normally wouldn't consider panda to be a poster focused on point scoring, but more with just jacking around in favor of left-wing and non-fundamentalist positions.