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abacacus
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01 Feb 2012, 6:06 pm

cw10 wrote:

Oodain wrote:

cw10 wrote:

You have to eat your brussel sprouts along with your steak Ood. Atheists always claim the world would be a better place if they ran the show. I see proof of this in North Korea don't you? /sarcasm.

so you come with some irrelevant comment and repost your previous question,

still a strawman and oversimplification, in reality you have to account for not only what kind of political system any one country has but also the mindset incurred in people while being educated and a host of other factors.

garbage in, garbage out... and with hardcore propaganda in the mix i would say they are assured garbage.

Atheism in a nutshell.

Atheist propaganda, including such fallacies as science, logic, free thought, and individualism!

Coming soon to ruin a country near you!

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cw10
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01 Feb 2012, 6:10 pm

abacacus wrote:

cw10 wrote:

Oodain wrote:

cw10 wrote:

You have to eat your brussel sprouts along with your steak Ood. Atheists always claim the world would be a better place if they ran the show. I see proof of this in North Korea don't you? /sarcasm.

Atheism in a nutshell.

Atheist propaganda, including such fallacies as science, logic, free thought, and individualism!

Coming soon to ruin a country near you!

Yeah, there's individualism in North Korea. No wait... there isn't.

Dictatorships, ah yes. Show me one country that you'd like to live in that doesn't have freedom of religion that isn't a dictatorship?

Oodain
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01 Feb 2012, 6:13 pm

cw10 wrote:

Oodain wrote:

cw10 wrote:

You have to eat your brussel sprouts along with your steak Ood. Atheists always claim the world would be a better place if they ran the show. I see proof of this in North Korea don't you? /sarcasm.

Atheism in a nutshell.

so you are continuing to display a blatant disregard for anything but cheap potshots,

also your numbers dont take into account who actually believe and who dont,
theres a reason priests in denmark are complaining they only get a third of the youth they used to, no one wants to ingrain their children, they leave it up to them.

also if you truly think religion is that good of an answer then why arent there any perfect religious havens in the world?

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abacacus
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01 Feb 2012, 6:13 pm

A country being run by Atheists does not mean that everyone must be Atheistic.

Much like how my country (Canada) is run by Christians for the most part, but I am free to be an Atheist, or a Hindu, or a Muslim, or whatever I would like to be.

You are again assuming that any country run by Atheists will be a dictatorship or theocracy (in a sense anyway :lol: ). This is quite simply not true, no more so than saying any country run by Christians will be a theological dictatorship run by the pope :roll:

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CrazyCatLord
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01 Feb 2012, 6:13 pm

The only reason that organized religion is banned in North Korea is that the cult of Kim Jong-un takes the place of religion. People are supposed to worship him like a living god, and there is no room for other gods beside him (that sounds a bit familiar, doesn't it).

Political ideologies can be every bit as dogmatic, rigid, oppressive and damaging as religious ideologies. Atheism by itself imposes no dogma whatsoever, and freethought rejects all kinds of authority-based thinking.

Last edited by CrazyCatLord on 01 Feb 2012, 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cw10
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01 Feb 2012, 6:14 pm

abacacus wrote:

). This is quite simply not true, no more so than saying any country run by Christians will be a theological dictatorship run by the pope :roll:

You're assuming there is a country run by Atheists that is a nice place to live. Find me one and I'll shut up.

cw10
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01 Feb 2012, 6:16 pm

Oodain wrote:

cw10 wrote:

Oodain wrote:

cw10 wrote:

You have to eat your brussel sprouts along with your steak Ood. Atheists always claim the world would be a better place if they ran the show. I see proof of this in North Korea don't you? /sarcasm.

Atheism in a nutshell.

Are there any perfect Atheistic havens in the world?

CrazyCatLord
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01 Feb 2012, 6:16 pm

cw10 wrote:

abacacus wrote:

). This is quite simply not true, no more so than saying any country run by Christians will be a theological dictatorship run by the pope :roll:

You're assuming there is a country run by Atheists that is a nice place to live. Find me one and I'll shut up.

How about Sweden?

abacacus
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01 Feb 2012, 6:18 pm

cw10 wrote:

abacacus wrote:

). This is quite simply not true, no more so than saying any country run by Christians will be a theological dictatorship run by the pope :roll:

You're assuming there is a country run by Atheists that is a nice place to live. Find me one and I'll shut up.

Sweden comes to mind.

Ever talked to any Swedish people? I have. The general belief in Sweden is that religion is of no consequence, it doesn't matter what anyone believes as long as they don't force it on anyone else.

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CrazyCatLord
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01 Feb 2012, 6:18 pm

cw10 wrote:

CrazyCatLord wrote:

Here is a list of countries by percentage of atheists and agnostics among the population:
http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html

The list is led by countries like Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Japan. They are not exactly authoritarian military dictatorships.

Interestingly, lists of countries by Human Development Index or by best quality of life tend to look similar. You will find many of the same countries in the top ranks.

Japan: "Shinto, meaning "the way of the gods", is Japan's indigenous religion and is practiced by about 83% of the population."
Norway: "Nominal religion in Norway is mostly Protestant (Evangelical-Lutheran) with 78.9% belonging to the state Evangelical Lutheran Church of Norway.[1] Early Norwegians, like all of the people of Scandinavia, believed in Norse paganism; the Sámi having a shamanistic religion."
Denmark: "Another study by Eurobarometer Poll 2005,[1] 31% of Danish citizens responded that "they believe there is a god", whereas 49% answered that "they believe there is some sort of spirit or life force""

Sweden scored a bit low on the religion scale:

Sweden: "Sweden was Christianized from Norse paganism in the 11th century. Since the 16th century Sweden has been predominantly Lutheran. From the Protestant Reformation in the 1530s until 2000, the Lutheran Church of Sweden (Swedish: Svenska kyrkan) was the state church. As of 2010, about 70% of Swedes are members of the Church of Sweden, compared to over 95% in 1970, and 83% in 2000.[1]
Religiosity in Sweden plays a limited role compared to the European average. In a 2009 Gallup poll, 17% answered yes to the question "Is religion an important part of your daily life?".[2] Less than 4% of the Church of Sweden membership attends public worship during an average week; about 2% are regular attendees.[3]"

Yeah I see how all these nations are so very irreligious. /sarcasm.

And yet the majority of people in those countries answered "No" when asked if they believed in a god in 2005.

Last edited by CrazyCatLord on 01 Feb 2012, 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cw10
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01 Feb 2012, 6:19 pm

CrazyCatLord wrote:

cw10 wrote:

abacacus wrote:

). This is quite simply not true, no more so than saying any country run by Christians will be a theological dictatorship run by the pope :roll:

You're assuming there is a country run by Atheists that is a nice place to live. Find me one and I'll shut up.

How about Sweden?

It's still officially mostly Lutheran. And I know Lutherans. I lived in Minnesota for several years. They are religious, they just don't talk about it (Minnesota Nice).

cw10
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01 Feb 2012, 6:23 pm

"Sweden has the second highest total tax revenue behind Denmark, as a share of the country's income. As of 2010, total tax revenue was 45.8% of GDP, down from 48.3% in 2006.[8]"

Yeah high taxes. Sure great place to live. Work half of the year for the state. Sounds like f'n paradise.

Oodain
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01 Feb 2012, 6:24 pm

cw10 wrote:

Are there any perfect Atheistic havens in the world?

no but anyone that is interested in the actual dicsussion dont look in false dichotomies and black and white,
nor did i claim there would be, of course not we are all humans, so of course we f**k up.

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cw10
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01 Feb 2012, 6:27 pm

Oodain wrote:

cw10 wrote:

Are there any perfect Atheistic havens in the world?

no but anyone that is interested in the actual dicsussion dont look in false dichotomies and black and white,
nor did i claim there would be, of course not we are all humans, so of course we f**k up.

You're one of the few that understands. It will take many more moons to find harmony if we're destined to do so. I'd like to think we are.

CrazyCatLord
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01 Feb 2012, 6:28 pm

cw10 wrote:

CrazyCatLord wrote:

cw10 wrote:

You're assuming there is a country run by Atheists that is a nice place to live. Find me one and I'll shut up.

How about Sweden?

It's still officially mostly Lutheran. And I know Lutherans. I lived in Minnesota for several years. They are religious, they just don't talk about it (Minnesota Nice).

Religious affiliation does not equal belief.

You don't live in Europe I suppose? Here in Germany, it usually works like this: People get baptized as infants, and that's often the last time they will ever see a church from the inside. On the paper, they are Christians. When somebody asks them for their religious affiliation, they'll say "Protestant" or "Catholic". But when asked if they believe in a god, most of them will shrug and say "I don't know really. Probably not".

We simply don't make a huge fuzz about religion and most official Christians never bother to think about it. It's simply part of their tradition. That doesn't mean that they believe in gods and angels and talking snakes.

Oodain
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01 Feb 2012, 6:30 pm

cw10 wrote:

we rank higher on freedom indexes and we dont have to pay for education or healthcare,
there is help for those that need it and your taxes are way off anyway, i pay around 36% in personal tax and no corporate tax for my own company (because of the bracket it falls into)
you also have what amounts to around 10k tax exempt dollars in tax deductions imply for being a citizen, that way students and the worst off wont have to pay tax for the first half of any one year, at least.

arguments from ignorance, they are just that.

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the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
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