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Kraichgauer
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06 Jul 2012, 5:11 pm

ruveyn wrote:
The Acid Test. Is. 7:14. If you see the word "virgin" there consign the translation to the flames. That is NOT what the Hebrew says.

NIV goes to the Flames.

ruveyn


One word invalidates the whole translation? How about the rest of the text?
And by the way, I know the proper translation isn't virgin - - I learned that from my Pastor.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Joker
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06 Jul 2012, 5:16 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
The Acid Test. Is. 7:14. If you see the word "virgin" there consign the translation to the flames. That is NOT what the Hebrew says.

NIV goes to the Flames.

ruveyn


One word invalidates the whole translation? How about the rest of the text?
And by the way, I know the proper translation isn't virgin - - I learned that from my Pastor.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


As did I funny they all think our Bible, Is translated the same when it's not.



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06 Jul 2012, 5:33 pm

Lord_Gareth wrote:
Plus when you posted that you came across as a total ass, which is one of the hazards of text-only communication.


That wasn't my intention, but you're right. It's hard to convey emotions in text-only medium.



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06 Jul 2012, 5:42 pm

kxmode wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
Plus when you posted that you came across as a total ass, which is one of the hazards of text-only communication.


That wasn't my intention, but you're right. It's hard to convey emotions in text-only medium.


I figured it wasn't. Other disagreements with you aside, intentional baiting doesn't seem to be your style.


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Joker
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06 Jul 2012, 5:45 pm

I have read diffrent verison of the bible the one where they translated amariac to english it was good.



Vexcalibur
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06 Jul 2012, 6:53 pm

If there's a god it is likely going to be completely different to the one described by Jesus, so I am going to go by no. Even if he disclosed the name of what he thought was god, he did not really disclose GOD's name.


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06 Jul 2012, 6:58 pm

Um, ruveyn, it's YHVH. There is no "w" in hebrew.



AngelRho
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06 Jul 2012, 7:27 pm

Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
The Acid Test. Is. 7:14. If you see the word "virgin" there consign the translation to the flames. That is NOT what the Hebrew says.

NIV goes to the Flames.

ruveyn


One word invalidates the whole translation? How about the rest of the text?
And by the way, I know the proper translation isn't virgin - - I learned that from my Pastor.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


As did I funny they all think our Bible, Is translated the same when it's not.

We've discussed this in previous threads. The words for virgin and for young woman are used interchangeably elsewhere in the OT. Ruveyn's objection is not one of translation but rather of reading Christology into the prophets.



kxmode
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06 Jul 2012, 8:09 pm

Lord_Gareth wrote:
kxmode wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
Plus when you posted that you came across as a total ass, which is one of the hazards of text-only communication.


That wasn't my intention, but you're right. It's hard to convey emotions in text-only medium.


I figured it wasn't. Other disagreements with you aside, intentional baiting doesn't seem to be your style.


It's not. I try to be very respectful with everyone including those who don't agree with me and visa versa.



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06 Jul 2012, 8:11 pm

Excellent. Now that we've established this, might I proceed to once again requesting an explanation of why this particular subject is important to your theology?


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Joker
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06 Jul 2012, 8:45 pm

Well having respect for others" even if you do not agree. WIth them it apart of our "moral teachings".



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06 Jul 2012, 8:52 pm

I meant the name of God, Joker. Having respect even for people who disagree with you (or even for one's enemies) is just good sense.


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Joker
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06 Jul 2012, 8:55 pm

I do apologize but he name of God' is many the Jews call him many names.

Just like Lucifier who also has many names theistly speaking of course. Because not everyone has paranormal beliefs.



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06 Jul 2012, 9:35 pm

Lord_Gareth wrote:
Excellent. Now that we've established this, might I proceed to once again requesting an explanation of why this particular subject is important to your theology?


Jehovah God called the nation of Israel, "my witnesses.” (Isaiah 43:10) At Relevation 1:5 Jesus was called “the Faithful Witness". Why was Israel and Jesus called witnesses. Who were they witnesses for and why?

To answer this question it is necessary to go all the way back to the garden of Eden where it all began. The first book of the Bible tells of an opposer of God who showed up in the garden of Eden. He is described as “the serpent,” but he was not a mere animal. The last book of the Bible identifies him as “the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth.” He is also called “the original serpent.” (Genesis 3:1; Revelation 12:9) This powerful angel, or invisible spirit creature, used a serpent to speak to Eve, even as a skilled person can make it seem that his voice is coming from a nearby doll or dummy. That spirit person, no doubt, had been present when God prepared the earth for humans. — Job 38:4, 7.

This angel apparently heard God tell Adam and Eve to have children and to fill the earth with their offspring. (Genesis 1:27, 28) ‘Why, all these humans could worship me rather than God!’ Satan evidently thought. So a wrong desire built up in his heart. Eventually, he took action to deceive Eve by telling her lies about God. (Genesis 3:1-5) He thus became a “Devil,” which means “Slanderer.” At the same time, he became “Satan,” which means “Opposer.” By using lies and trickery, Satan the Devil caused Adam and Eve to disobey God. (Genesis 2:17; 3:6)

When Satan led Adam and Eve into sinning against God, what he was really doing was leading a rebellion. He was challenging Jehovah’s way of ruling. In effect, Satan was saying: ‘God is a bad ruler. He tells lies and holds back good things from his subjects. Humans do not need to have God ruling over them. They can decide for themselves what is good and what is bad. And they will be better off under my rulership.’ (Luke 4:5-8)

How would God handle such an insulting challenge? Some think that God should simply have put the rebels to death. But would that have answered Satan’s challenge? Would it have proved that God’s way of ruling is right?

Jehovah’s perfect sense of justice would not allow him to put the rebels to death right away. He decided that time was needed to answer Satan’s challenge in a satisfying way and to prove that Satan is a liar. So God determined that he would permit humans to rule themselves for some time under Satan’s influence. (1 John 5:19; 2 Corinthians 4:4) It is good to think about this: Were Adam and Eve right to believe Satan, who had never done anything good for them? Was it right for them to believe that Jehovah, who had given them everything they had, is a cruel liar? What would you have done?

It is good to think about these questions because each of us faces these questions today. Both Jesus and the nation of Israel were witnesses for God's universal sovereignty, or his right to rule. As Revelation 4:11 puts it, "You are worthy, Jehovah, even our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they existed and were created." This is why why God's name, and the telling of his name to others, is so important for Jehovah's Witnesses today. Knowing God's name is a vital important first step in being able to sanctify it, or “to make holy, set apart or hold as sacred”. This is why when Jesus said the sanctification of God's name, in the model prayer, was the VERY first thing ask for.

Both you and I have the opportunity to support Jehovah’s side in answer to Satan’s challenge respecting Jehovah's sovereignty. (Proverbs 27:11)

Does this help answer your question?


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The former things have passed away."


Last edited by kxmode on 06 Jul 2012, 9:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Joker
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06 Jul 2012, 9:36 pm

I like his answer :wink:



Lord_Gareth
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06 Jul 2012, 9:47 pm

kxmode wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
Excellent. Now that we've established this, might I proceed to once again requesting an explanation of why this particular subject is important to your theology?


Jehovah God called the nation of Israel, "my witnesses.” (Isaiah 43:10) At Relevation 1:5 Jesus was called “the Faithful Witness". Why was Israel and Jesus called witnesses. Who were they witnesses for and why?

To answer this question it is necessary to go all the way back to the garden of Eden where it all began. The first book of the Bible tells of an opposer of God who showed up in the garden of Eden. He is described as “the serpent,” but he was not a mere animal. The last book of the Bible identifies him as “the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth.” He is also called “the original serpent.” (Genesis 3:1; Revelation 12:9) This powerful angel, or invisible spirit creature, used a serpent to speak to Eve, even as a skilled person can make it seem that his voice is coming from a nearby doll or dummy. That spirit person, no doubt, had been present when God prepared the earth for humans. — Job 38:4, 7.

This angel apparently heard God tell Adam and Eve to have children and to fill the earth with their offspring. (Genesis 1:27, 28) ‘Why, all these humans could worship me rather than God!’ Satan evidently thought. So a wrong desire built up in his heart. Eventually, he took action to deceive Eve by telling her lies about God. (Genesis 3:1-5) He thus became a “Devil,” which means “Slanderer.” At the same time, he became “Satan,” which means “Opposer.” By using lies and trickery, Satan the Devil caused Adam and Eve to disobey God. (Genesis 2:17; 3:6)

When Satan led Adam and Eve into sinning against God, what he was really doing was leading a rebellion. He was challenging Jehovah’s way of ruling. In effect, Satan was saying: ‘God is a bad ruler. He tells lies and holds back good things from his subjects. Humans do not need to have God ruling over them. They can decide for themselves what is good and what is bad. And they will be better off under my rulership.’ (Luke 4:5-8)

How would God handle such an insulting challenge? Some think that God should simply have put the rebels to death. But would that have answered Satan’s challenge? Would it have proved that God’s way of ruling is right?

Jehovah’s perfect sense of justice would not allow him to put the rebels to death right away. He decided that time was needed to answer Satan’s challenge in a satisfying way and to prove that Satan is a liar. So God determined that he would permit humans to rule themselves for some time under Satan’s influence. (1 John 5:19; 2 Corinthians 4:4) It is good to think about this: Were Adam and Eve right to believe Satan, who had never done anything good for them? Was it right for them to believe that Jehovah, who had given them everything they had, is a cruel liar? What would you have done?

It is good to think about these questions because each of us faces these questions today. Both Jesus and the nation of Israel were witnesses for God's universal sovereignty, or his right to rule. As Revelation 4:11 puts it, "You are worthy, Jehovah, even our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they existed and were created." This is why why God's name, and the telling of his name to others, is so important for Jehovah's Witnesses today. Knowing God's name is a vital important first step in being able to sanctify it, or “to make holy, set apart or hold as sacred”. This is why when Jesus said the sanctification of God's name, in the model prayer, was the VERY first thing ask for.

Both you and I have the opportunity to support Jehovah’s side in answer to Satan’s challenge respecting Jehovah's sovereignty. (Proverbs 27:11)

Does this help answer your question?


That certainly helps speed me on my way. I'm still uncertain as to why using his name - or a translation thereof - is essential, though - wouldn't identifying him as The God of Abraham, or the King of the Jews, or even just My Lord suffice as a rather specific identifying title, especially given his state omniscience?


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