Are the Muslims really the biggest threat . . .

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Sufi and Sunni are not exclusive terms like Protestant and Catholic.
Most Sufi are Sunni although the Alevis in turkey are the most Sufi.
The troubling Muslims just like the Troubling Xtians and Jews belong to politically motivated sects.
Wahhabism and the Saudi support of it is the problem in Islam.

I know, but it's hard to say how many Sunni practitioners (most Muslims) are also Sufi. Also, Sufism is a mystical practice more than it is a theological system, so it's possible to go chasing after divine love through mystical practices and still believe nasty things about apostates, as per your scriptures. Mother Teresa was a mystic but she still believed that the poverty was ennobling and women should never use birth control.
Mainstream (non-Sufi) Sunni and Shi'a interpretation of scripture also troubles me. Most Muslims I've met have been Sunni or Shi'a with only a minimal interest in Sufism (the same way you get Catholics who are into Christian meditation, but they're still Catholics). I've even met Muslims influenced by Salafism - in the West, who are of Desi origin (so, nothing to do with Saudi Arabia). I think Islam is becoming more radical across the globe, and this isn't limited to KSA.

Not limited to but certainly fomented by.

In Pakistan Muslims are the biggest threats to Christians. A Christian half-wit girl was put in peril of her life because she was accused of tossing written verses from the Q'ran into the trash. It turned out she was probably framed by a Muslim. The fact that even a trivial act of tossing a piece of paper with a verse from the Q'ran is grounds for death indicates the nature and degree of the threat.

ruveyn

Violent, supremacist Islamic thugs are the biggest threat to Christians across many parts of the Muslim world and frankly it's shameful that the Western media black out all coverage in what is going on in places like Egypt and Syria. I haven't got time for any organised religion but what is happening in these countries is utterly appalling. It's been going on since forever though.

This story is from Pakistan from the last week:

What exactly happens to someone in America if they publicly burn a US flag exactly?
Last I checked they were lucky not to be beat to death by a mob.

That's a flag. Not even a holy, spiritual item. Just a flag.

That is a blatant exaggeration. First of all it is not illegal to burn your own flag as long as no fire safety laws are violated. Second, in Pakistan punishment for blasphemy is part of their Law. In the U.S. the First Amendment protects most forms of speech, writing or expression. (Fomenting a riot or insurrection is illegal in the U.S.)

ruveyn

Do you want to know what happens in Britain when you burn a U.S., UK or any other flag? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Try publicly burning a Quran though, and you will be imprisoned. (The same doesn't apply to the Bible.)

Yah, so that means we should kill them all?
They don't get a chance to grow and learn like your government and my government?

I don't know how on Earth you come to that conclusion as to where I've ever said that. Oh yes, that's right. I didn't.

My major beef really is to do with the political class (along with their fellow travellers) for assisting and abetting the spread of Islam in the West and their policies. I want this sorted out peacefully, without bloodshed.

Last edited by Tequila on 07 Sep 2012, 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

You guys have got to form a Republic and have something like the First Amendment protect unpopular speech or modes of expression.

By the way, is public book burning permitted by your fire laws?

ruveyn

There's nothing to suggest in the news stories that he was actually done for that. He was done for "religiously-aggravated harassment" (whatever that is in this case) and theft of the Quran (which isn't on, whichever way you cut it).

Burning something that is not one's own property is a no no.

But to the general problem. You guys have a rather prickly sub population i.e. the Muslims who are not well integrated into British society. Burning a Q'ran in your neck of the woods is really fomenting a riot and that is probably why you have such a law. Unfortunate.

In the U.S. we are luckier. Most of the Muslims in the U.S. are reasonably well integrated into American society. They might not be loved, but they are not routinely harassed or treated as parihias. And the only people who are burning pages from the Q'ran publicly are people from strange organizations like the Westboro Baptist Church who make a point of beings pains in the ass.

It seems that we in the U.S. have lucked out better than you folks in Britain in this regard.

The English, historically have not done well in assimilating some foreign groups. For example, in England, Jews were kicked out and were not re-welcomed until the time of Oliver Cromwell. I understand that during the Great War many German immigrants who were legal subjects in Britain were treated less than well. You guys got rid of slavery early but you did not do will in assimilation.

ruveyn

Try burning a bible in front of a bunch of Christians or Catholics and your not likely to leave there in one piece.


Islam has as much right to be practiced by anyone who wish's in the west as Christianity, Judaism, Catholicism and so on does in the east.

I love how you have no problem with spreading Christianity to Muslims, yet fight so hard to keep their religion from spreading.
How it disgusts you when a Muslim harasses someone for their religion or lack there of, but complete disregard when they are harassed for their religion.

Its just so amazingly sensible.

Do it in England and I guarantee they'll just tut and call you a knobhead. Physical violence would never enter their heads.

Burn a Quran in front of Muslims and they'll go for your head.

Back that up empirically. You are projecting again.

The Westboro Baptist Church, a rather unpleasant group, has done outrageous things and have yet to be attacked in public with open violence (fists, clubs, guns etc.). They are despised (and they should be) but they are yet to be physically attacked, Their buildings have not be set afire.

Most people would not do what you suggest because they are too polite to do so.

Burning a bible publicly borders on fomenting a riot. It is not just burning paper. It is provoking a violent response. People have carried posters in public demonstrations denigrating Christians. This has generally not been met with a violent response. Public bill boards with ads have been set up putting down Christian beliefs but no violence has ensued.

Back a ways, the motion picture The Last Temptation of Christ was picketed and demonstrated (at several theaters) by Catholic demonstrators, but no violence came of it. On the other hand, when Salman Rushdie's book insulting the Prophet (PBUH) was published and sold, several bookstores received outright explicit threats of violence and destruction. My wife worked at Waldenbooks at the time and her store received written and telephoned threats. That did not stop the book from going on sale, by the way. Even so, there were very few incidents of violence concerning Rushdie's book

We are a little better in the U.S. than they are in Pakistan.

ruveyn