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MCalavera
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03 Jun 2013, 4:50 am

And how about Internet censorship in Syria?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_c ... p_in_Syria

Yeah, but at least Bashar is secular and isn't imposing a sharia because obviously there's a difference there. :lol:



The_Face_of_Boo
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03 Jun 2013, 7:14 am

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/saudi-ara ... -1.1192212

Doesn't he deserve to be knocked by some rebellion?



ruveyn
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03 Jun 2013, 7:34 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/saudi-arabia/saudi-prince-forks-out-15m-at-disneyland-paris-1.1192212

Doesn't he deserve to be knocked by some rebellion?


Why? Because he is rich? That is not politics or ethics talking. That is envy.

ruveyn



MCalavera
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03 Jun 2013, 11:29 am

So let me gather some points together to make things clear for people Jacoby to understand:

1. The majority of Syrians are Sunni. Common sense dictates (and anecdotes support) that the majority of Syrian are against Bashar.
2. FSA and Nusra are not one and the same.
3. FSA and Nusra are not true allies. There is tension between the two groups. Some members between the two groups are in agreement with each other, but others are in total disagreement.
4. There are other rebel groups and organizations within Syria fighting to overthrow Bashar.
5. Bashar is a dictator.
6. Bashar is just as extreme as the Nusra and other Jihadist oppositions.
7. Bashar regime is backed up by an extreme "Lebanese" (or rather Iranian) party.
8. Situationally speaking, Bashar's crimes have been more extreme overall than the opposition side within Syria (and this is including the Nusra).
9. The reason why FSA is "allied" with Nusra is because there's no other choice. Either they fight with extremists or they stop fighting altogether.
10. FSA are people who defected from the Syrian army after what they saw the army do against the people. The FSA was formed to support the people, not to kill them.
11. FSA and many other rebellion organizations are not about imposing the Sharia.
12. And even if the Sharia gets imposed, it's not like the situation in Syria was any better under Bashar. Also, Sharia still has to depend on the interpretation of whoever sets it up, so it's not necessarily going to be extreme if it happens.

Did I miss anything else that needs to be said? Hope not. Let's not disregard the above points.



Inventor
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04 Jun 2013, 12:44 am

MCalavera wrote:
Inventor wrote:
Assad is the lessor evil.


Anyone who's aware of the atrocities committed by Assad and believe Assad is the lesser evil compared to the rebels as a whole are morally confused in my opinion.

I can excuse those who are ignorant, though.


War is not a moral activity, Someone is not bad because he bombs you for snipeing his troops, he is applying force to end what someone else started.

Your views about the rights of majority non voters to take up arms is weak.

Start a war, then call for Europe to fight for you? Protective enclaves, a no fly zone, would not only have a huge cost, in men and weapons lost, it promotes a direct conflict with Russia.

Learn from history, when The Brotherhood tried the same thing, Assad's father killed at least 40,000 and barred them from Sryia.

Starting a shooting war was with full knowledge that many would die. As Politics, it was a play for outside support. Look at all the blood, give us money.

It was staged, by some bad actors, and was worse than Georgia's attack on Russia, calling for NATO support.

The first people who played it were the House of Saud, sending in guns, troops, to become your leaders. They do not want the government to fall, they want the Nation to fall, broken in a thousand warring pieces.

Saudi backed troops are not going to stand aside and see a Democratic State form, They are Kings, and hate that kind of state. They are spending money with the goal of appointing someone to rule it for them. Break it, impose a government.

They have not been sending in food, medical supplies, just guns, helping you to destroy your country for them. At the worst, at least destroy yourselves. The FSA is cannon fodder. As the only place they have to fight from is towns, they will bring down the wrath of the government.

Getting a lot of people killed is not showing your wisdom and love of the people. Getting people's homes destroyed is not making friends or supporters, as there was no need, other than to show thier bodies on video. There was no battle, nothing was captured or defended, just some people started shooting, and a lot of other people who lived there died.

This is shooting at government troops from the roof of the local school, knowing the government will bomb the place. Look at all the dead children! The Government are monsters!

War is politics, and the FSA failed to form a political party, they are loose factions fighting over the spoils, future government offices, while thousands are dying. They are not fit to be a party involved in a Civil War. If the Government would just explode or leave, they will become bands of looters. Then there are the Jihadis, who have their own plans.

Only one party has shown themselves fit to maintain a State, to preserve the country, maintain international relations, and none of the Rebels has any connection with Iran, Russia, Iraq, which are major players.

The Rebels one hope is if everyone will just leave they will take over, then they would be killed by the Jihadis, who will have all the weapons.

What the FSA Rebels want, A Democratic State, leads to what none of the other players want, a One Party Islamic State.

The Rebels want advanced arms, Anti Missile, anti aircraft, which are large expensive systems, that take years of training to run. The ones stationed in Turkey are run by American, German, and Norway special troops.

In a country of millions, the FSA claims just over 100,000 fighters, most of whom have never been trained to fight. The Government has a much larger army, plus advanced weapons.

By now everyone who was going to defect has, captured defectors get shot, and there is a steady decline of Rebel troops. Supply routes are being closed, the freedom of movement cut off.

It is not the role of government to supply food, medical care, water, power, to Rebel Towns that shoot at them.

In that town encircled near Lebanon, the government left a path for the old, women, children, to leave. They did not. I am sure they all want to die for the FSA, or they are being held as a human shield. The water was cut off, they have no food, hundreds in need of medical care, and no medics or supplies. They are chosing to die. or someone is chosing it for them.

This is your war, badly planned, supplied, with no fallback. The Government quits and leaves, or every one of us dies. If they do, we will go to the Russian base and tell them to leave, or we will behead our children.

What war is good for is getting rid of dumb people. It is going well, and until the government finishes off the Jihadis, we will watch on TV.



MCalavera
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04 Jun 2013, 1:56 am

Inventor wrote:
War is not a moral activity, Someone is not bad because he bombs you for snipeing his troops, he is applying force to end what someone else started.


The violence was started by Bashar regime. They hated Syrians peacefully protesting against the government, and this is why we have this war going on in Syria.

Don't twist things to make it sound like he didn't start it.



The_Face_of_Boo
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04 Jun 2013, 2:02 am

Inventor wrote:
Learn from history, when The Brotherhood tried the same thing, Assad's father killed at least 40,000 and barred them from Sryia. .



I didn't read all your non-sense long post but that caught my attention since a lot of you westerners repeat it.

A reminder from history: Assad didn't only killed the Brotherhood, he massacred communists, SSNP and every non-baath secular and leftist party.



The_Face_of_Boo
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04 Jun 2013, 2:04 am

ruveyn wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/saudi-arabia/saudi-prince-forks-out-15m-at-disneyland-paris-1.1192212

Doesn't he deserve to be knocked by some rebellion?


Why? Because he is rich? That is not politics or ethics talking. That is envy.

ruveyn


And from where you think he gets all this money? From his hard work? From the land's oil of course!

Those money should be invested elsewhere in KSA instead of personal entertainment.



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04 Jun 2013, 2:18 am

Quote:
What the FSA Rebels want, A Democratic State, leads to what none of the other players want, a One Party Islamic State.


Not really.
A typical american scarerowing Blah blah blah again

You westerners all feared that Egypt will become a Sharia state the next day Mubarak falls, it didn't happen, despite the close Islamist victory in election (52%), they can't rule alone, there's a 48% + Pro-Mubarak (who boycotted votes) + Radical leftists (who boycotted too). In the next run, chances are high that brotherhood would lose if all anti-Islamist unify.

You all feared that Tunisia will become the same, it didn't happen, despite all the undergoing attempts by the Islamist ruler. Despite their election victory, the Islamists in Tunisia are NOT the majority, they won because they are the most unified/organized big minority.

Same for Libya, but it was the liberals who won.


The Sharia state can't happen when you have half (and probably more) of the population against it.

So why you want to deprive the people the chance to change? What the dictators do to the islamism expansion? They fueled it! Bashar gave load of funds and aids to islamist groups outside his country such as Hezbollah, Hamas, fath el Islam, Jund el Cham and other islamist groups in Iraq.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 04 Jun 2013, 6:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

Kraichgauer
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04 Jun 2013, 2:22 am

There are plenty of us Americans who still have hope for the Arab Spring. Don't confuse Fox Noise for the voice of my country.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



MCalavera
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04 Jun 2013, 3:21 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/saudi-arabia/saudi-prince-forks-out-15m-at-disneyland-paris-1.1192212

Doesn't he deserve to be knocked by some rebellion?


Why? Because he is rich? That is not politics or ethics talking. That is envy.

ruveyn


And from where you think he gets all this money? From his hard work? From the land's oil of course!

Those money should be invested elsewhere in KSA instead of personal entertainment.


I hope the rebellion happens in Saudi Arabia as well. Ooh, but now some Americans are getting terrified by the idea.



The_Face_of_Boo
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04 Jun 2013, 5:47 am

Those are the terrorists the Al-Assad is killing, this pic is from Banias, after Assad troops attacked it:

http://www.uruknet.info/pic.php?f=5bani ... 6668_n.jpg

You can check the image's source by using the google chrome addon.


http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle ... z2V9iLdTSz


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/br ... 6644843862



Tequila
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04 Jun 2013, 7:22 am

Boo, you can't post that crap here. Photos of dead bodies are a no-no.



MCalavera
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04 Jun 2013, 7:41 am

UN report:
http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/HRBodies ... -58_en.pdf

I find this quote quite interesting:

Quote:
The violations and abuses committed by anti-Government armed groups did not, however, reach the intensity and scale of those committed by Government forces and affiliated militia.



The_Face_of_Boo
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04 Jun 2013, 7:46 am

Tequila wrote:
Boo, you can't post that crap here. Photos of dead bodies are a no-no.


I know it's against your culture values to see such pics in the mainstream press, in mine it isn't. So yeah, maybe what I did is against WP's rules.

But sometimes such pics need to be shoved on your faces to prove what's really going on.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 04 Jun 2013, 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

The_Face_of_Boo
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04 Jun 2013, 7:48 am

MCalavera wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/saudi-arabia/saudi-prince-forks-out-15m-at-disneyland-paris-1.1192212

Doesn't he deserve to be knocked by some rebellion?


Why? Because he is rich? That is not politics or ethics talking. That is envy.

ruveyn


And from where you think he gets all this money? From his hard work? From the land's oil of course!

Those money should be invested elsewhere in KSA instead of personal entertainment.


I hope the rebellion happens in Saudi Arabia as well. Ooh, but now some Americans are getting terrified by the idea.



KSA is kind of hopeless though, it needs a women full scale revolution more than anything else. I have far much more faith in the Iranian people than KSA's.