What can we do about the high male suicide rate?

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Was that a jab at me? If so, that was pretty low. I don't think I deserve any less respect as a human being just because I didn't attain a university degree. My feelings are genuinely hurt by this, if it's directed at me. If that's what you were going for, you succeeded.

I don't know if this was said in the thread earlier but:

Just my experience as a guy - there's a good amount of "If you don't achieve X, Y, and Z your worthless". If you have any particular situation in your life preventing you from achieving X, Y, and Z you're in a situation where there's no where to go and no one to talk to - you're a failed male and by definition you're superfluous to society.

I get that the above is a particularly negative mainstream narrative and one that will hurt you in ratio to the amount that you buy into it, just that I think it's a huge component of why a guy would take his own life rather than go seek help. The stigmas themselves that he may be racking up are things that society, as it's historically functioned, would recommend that he suffer for. He might want off this world simply because he found out that his biology simply weren't enough and that his genes couldn't even make the cut for a reasonably peaceful life let alone the suburban house with the white picket fence, DHW, and 2.2 kids.

That's a part of the situation that I'm not sure we'll know what to do with or how we'll transition out of.

I point this out because all the debate over whether men can intelligibly sense their own feelings misses a significantly bigger elephant in the room - you'll quite likely kill yourself if society is telling you that you don't really have a right to be alive and the general consensus is agreement to that effect.

That was not a jab at you. Why do you take things not meant for you so personally?

If you're talking about my post it was a theory that is backed up by studies and data. PTSD and child abuse are both linked to increased risks of suicide for example. So one way we could reduce suicide risk is by attempting to reduce the underlying cause (which admittedly takes a lot of work).

Yes, anger is acceptable in men, but one thing that is not widely accepted is men expressing pain and admitting to the world that one has been victimized. After all if you do this you are in danger of just getting called a crybaby. So I do think that what I said was relevant to the conversation.

There may be many causes. Anger and depression are just two. Hopelessness, shame, and fear are a few more. "Suicide Spectrum Disorder" may be an applicable concept.

There's a lot of theory thrown around on this topic...some or all may be valid. But it comes down to someone seeing someone who is hurting and helping them rather than spouting theory in a vacuum.

I am not saying that those debating theory would turn their backs on someone needing help. But I think it comes down to giving a man a reason to want to keep living. Sometimes that is possible; sometimes no matter what someone does to try to help, he still wants to die. There is no rule that applies to every situation.

I am so sorry for all of you who are speaking from a place of a lot of pain. I have been there. I don't have all the answers, but if anyone wants to talk further, feel free to pm me.

I don't know if it's been said yet, but i think step one would be to deermine - factually - if men truly are more serious when suicidal, or if it is just that they succeed more.

There's a lot of speculation focused on male-female differences, but if the data ends up showing that men simply have greater access to guns/other and are actually no more likely to Seriously attempt to die than women, then the focus of types of assistance/needed changes shifts. (e.g. being told not to cry may not have the impact it otherwise would appear).

While external events can certainly drive a person to suicide, I believe men have a higher suicide rate than women because they are less likely to seek help, are often socially isolated relative to their actual social needs, and more likely to choose a more effective method to end their lives.

There is a horrible myth that men are not as social as women, when, in fact, I believe men have more of a need for group socialization than women. There is also this horrible myth that men are not as emotional as women, when, in fact, I believe men are actually just as emotional, perhaps even feeling certain emotions more strongly, and more likely to translate their emotions to physical aggression, against themselves or others.

To reduce male suicide, I believe we need to reconstruct the concept of men as social creatures who have a need for a fraternal support network, and encourage men to join fraternal organizations such as the Freemasons, Shriners, Lions Club, the Knights of Columbus or other organizations that emphasize brothership, self growth, and goodwill.

The first thing we need to do is to STOP putting excess pressure on males. Society needs to change and allow men to be themselves without having too worry about whether or not they're "man enough". And most of all: Abrogate the stigma against men reaching out and asking for help. All this pressure to be strong is hurting and weakening our men.

I think the reasons for male and female suicide are similar. As has been said, men are more likely to have guns and are less likely to ask for help. Although, I think a case could be made that autistic women are also less likely to ask for help.

Anyway, the high suicide rate in general suggests that a lot of people are not happy. I think society should start to address the issues that cause unhappiness - unfulfilling work, unstable relationships, superficial values, etc. Unfortunately this is not likely to happen as our society is based on commercialism and adversary. But you never know. Awareness and acceptance are on the rise.

First I think you didn't really get what I was saying regarding violence and suicide.

Also that is quite a bold statement. We don't know that clinical depression alone doesn't drive the violent suicidal ideiation (I dislike that word) and suicide itself. That is chicken and egg question. That is your theory, it a valid hypothesis but needs to be tested.

My point is you have to allow for the possibility that whatever violence used to end life isn't necessarily indicative of built up rage. I could be a means to an end, quite literally.

I want to thank everyone for all input an ideas, I appreciate it.

There is a lot on male attitudes and expectations of masculinity in society. These are valid as hypothesis, I would also like to hear of ideas outside of this. I think we have to be open to other possibilities too.

This isn't really the case in the UK where these figure are from.

So if guns are a factor, they aren't enough of a factor to explain the difference in the UK.

My mother always tells me that women have greater endurance than men. Maybe this is true and is the reason women persevere.

I thought this study was interesting
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2674367/

I'm not sure how relevant it is to high risk groups.

This is another study of veterans, which show men and women are equally resilient in combat zones.
http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releas ... -4-797.pdf

Are you suggesting that a respected journal is a more reliable source than my mother? Gads.