The_Face_of_Boo
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08 Jun 2018, 2:05 pm
Peacesells wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Stop yelling like a whining baby.
Now tell me, what’s your view on Israel and Palestinians?
You think it’s ok to continue the extermination of any remaining Canaanite blood because this what God cammanded in the OT?
I mean... why should they stop now, did God put a time frame for the genocide of this ethnicity?
Now tell me, what’s your view on Israel and Palestinians?
You think it’s ok to continue the extermination of any remaining Canaanite blood because this what God cammanded in the OT?
I mean... why should they stop now, did God put a time frame for the genocide of this ethnicity?
Plot twist! I, ehm, don't really like Jews much... Let's say.
Why is so?
Quote:
As I see it, both Israel and Palestine are guilty of terrorism and war crimes against each other.
Hamas are terrorists, that's true.
Quote:
Your article was about Lebanese people, it didn't mention Palestinians at all.
They're the same ethnicity.
Quote:
I can easily deny that God didn't order all Canaanites to be killed, it's even written in the Bible but you still haven't read it properly it seems. Odd, considering that you quoted bits from that same passage.
The passage is literally: “You shall not leave alive anything that breathes. But you shall utterly destroy them.”
Show me the quotes where he said don't kill them all, shall you?
AngelRho
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08 Jun 2018, 2:05 pm
The_Face_of_Boo
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08 Jun 2018, 2:21 pm
AngelRho wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Quote:
Which brings us BACK to my earlier question. Where is it Jesus instructed His followers to commit genocide? Either He did or He didn’t. If He didn’t, then are people who claim to follow Jesus but promote genocide really following Jesus? If they don’t follow Jesus, are they even really Christians?
You are still asking about something I never said about Jesus.
But my logic is simple: His Father did command genocide in the OT, and you believe in the same God of Jews - are you saying that his son is morally better and more merciful than his Father?
And I don’t buy the whole “circumstance at the time” logic; this is an argument used by Muslims countless of times to justify Mohammad’s genocides.
Like for example the genocide of Khaybr - an old Arab Jewish tribe that got almost exterminated by Mohammad’s army, their women and kids got enslaved and their gold got stolen.
Now, some Muslims get shocked when they learn of the Khayber story and question why God would command to attack a Jewish community? There’s nothing in the Jewish faith and practices that contradict the pillars of Islam hence from Islamic point, Jews can’t be considered as disbelievers or idolators.
Muslim clerics though, typically justify it that, at this time, this “particular” Jewish community have committed a violation and treason to the truce they had with Mohammad’s state - and that their leaders were secretly cooperating with the pagan Arabs. Yeah, as if this justifies to kill their men and enslave all their women and kids. What a nice God.
AngelRho, you remind me so much of Muslim Clerics, you sound exactly like them - I am imagining you having a beard with a towel-like hat on head doing the Friday speech in a mosque.
Boo, I need you to focus.
I know you didn’t say anything about what Jesus said. I’m asking a question about what you know about what Christians have claimed. Are Christians using an OT rationale for genocide? If so, are they following a directive from Jesus? If they are, then that directive must be somewhere in the gospels. If that directive is NOT in the gospels, we have no reason to believe Jesus intended for Christians to kill everyone who doesn’t believe or act as they do or target an ethno-religious group for extermination.
It’s logically possible to find some rationale somewhere. Did Jesus actually promote that? Do you even know?
I don’t believe Jesus ever said that. I don’t recall ever reading it in the Gospels. Which means Christians can not justify genocide on religious grounds. And I don’t grant nominal Christians any legitimacy.
If you know where in the gospels Jesus commanded genocide, I’d love to see it for myself.
You are the one who needs to focus, I am saying for the nth time that Jesus never promoted genocide, nor the Gospel says so (By Gospel I mean the NT only).
However, the Christian faith doesn't only follow Jesus, even if he's the most important human-god figure, but the prophets before him also have much importance. Are you saying that Jesus overrides them all? Why keeping the OT at all then?
The Crusades were justified by Old Testament theology for instance - I am not saying it was a fellowship of Jesus.
08 Jun 2018, 2:35 pm
The_Face_of_Boo
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08 Jun 2018, 3:57 pm
So he only wanted to genocide just some cities only? Oh, that's comforting.
AngelRho
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08 Jun 2018, 4:10 pm
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Quote:
Which brings us BACK to my earlier question. Where is it Jesus instructed His followers to commit genocide? Either He did or He didn’t. If He didn’t, then are people who claim to follow Jesus but promote genocide really following Jesus? If they don’t follow Jesus, are they even really Christians?
You are still asking about something I never said about Jesus.
But my logic is simple: His Father did command genocide in the OT, and you believe in the same God of Jews - are you saying that his son is morally better and more merciful than his Father?
And I don’t buy the whole “circumstance at the time” logic; this is an argument used by Muslims countless of times to justify Mohammad’s genocides.
Like for example the genocide of Khaybr - an old Arab Jewish tribe that got almost exterminated by Mohammad’s army, their women and kids got enslaved and their gold got stolen.
Now, some Muslims get shocked when they learn of the Khayber story and question why God would command to attack a Jewish community? There’s nothing in the Jewish faith and practices that contradict the pillars of Islam hence from Islamic point, Jews can’t be considered as disbelievers or idolators.
Muslim clerics though, typically justify it that, at this time, this “particular” Jewish community have committed a violation and treason to the truce they had with Mohammad’s state - and that their leaders were secretly cooperating with the pagan Arabs. Yeah, as if this justifies to kill their men and enslave all their women and kids. What a nice God.
AngelRho, you remind me so much of Muslim Clerics, you sound exactly like them - I am imagining you having a beard with a towel-like hat on head doing the Friday speech in a mosque.
Boo, I need you to focus.
I know you didn’t say anything about what Jesus said. I’m asking a question about what you know about what Christians have claimed. Are Christians using an OT rationale for genocide? If so, are they following a directive from Jesus? If they are, then that directive must be somewhere in the gospels. If that directive is NOT in the gospels, we have no reason to believe Jesus intended for Christians to kill everyone who doesn’t believe or act as they do or target an ethno-religious group for extermination.
It’s logically possible to find some rationale somewhere. Did Jesus actually promote that? Do you even know?
I don’t believe Jesus ever said that. I don’t recall ever reading it in the Gospels. Which means Christians can not justify genocide on religious grounds. And I don’t grant nominal Christians any legitimacy.
If you know where in the gospels Jesus commanded genocide, I’d love to see it for myself.
You are the one who needs to focus, I am saying for the nth time that Jesus never promoted genocide, nor the Gospel says so (By Gospel I mean the NT only).
However, the Christian faith doesn't only follow Jesus, even if he's the most important human-god figure, but the prophets before him also have much importance. Are you saying that Jesus overrides them all? Why keeping the OT at all then?
The Crusades were justified by Old Testament theology for instance - I am not saying it was a fellowship of Jesus.
Ok, good to know we’re on the same page. So Christians can sometimes be misguided, as anyone can be, or we have a problem with nominal Christians who ruin it for everyone.
I can’t speak for the Crusaders. I think the first round might have been well-intentioned, but it later ended up being about greed and treasure hunting. We all know how it ended, with Muslims in control of THE premier tourist destination of the era.
Taken as a whole, it’s not the fault of Christianity, but rather those who make false claims in His name. I think it’s clear by this point that those who continue to talk genocide and extreme methods might be a bit outside Biblical grounds.
The Bible didn’t lie, Boo. Those people you talk about spreading garbage about it are. Your problem is with them, not scripture.
09 Jun 2018, 3:32 pm
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
So he only wanted to genocide just some cities only? Oh, that's comforting.
The Bible is not supposed to be comforting. It's pointless to discuss with many atheists about religion because they want to talk about it only from an atheistic point of view.
09 Jun 2018, 4:27 pm
09 Jun 2018, 4:54 pm
AngelRho
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09 Jun 2018, 5:36 pm
Peacesells wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
So he only wanted to genocide just some cities only? Oh, that's comforting.
The Bible is not supposed to be comforting. It's pointless to discuss with many atheists about religion because they want to talk about it only from an atheistic point of view.
Well said. The Bible wasn’t written to “be” anything. It’s just information. How you choose to interpret that may evoke any number of emotions, but that was never the purpose of the Bible as a whole. A lot of passages from Psalms and the Epistles certainly can be comforting and encouraging.
It’s also important to understand the difference between religion and the relationship of the believer and God. Religion on its own can be temporarily comforting, but I think it ends up being ritualistic and loses its meaning. An actual relationship with God? I’ve seen some amazing stuff happen in people’s lives.
The atheist point of view, exactly. I just love how anti-theists expect believers to accept the premise that God doesn’t exist and THEN try to prove that He does. They are so desperate to distance themselves from God that they can’t even accept our premise that God exists even for the sake of argument. And I don’t even mean what they refer to as “the Christian God” or the “Abrahamic God.” They can’t accept the premise of the possibility that any god even CAN exist.
09 Jun 2018, 7:37 pm
AngelRho
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09 Jun 2018, 8:45 pm
Peacesells wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
They are so desperate to distance themselves from God that they can’t even accept our premise that God exists even for the sake of argument.
They can accept God's existance for the sake of argument, but even then they sound to me as if they were talking about a president or a king with superpowers.
Btw we are going off-topic, I think we proved the original post to be wrong enough.
Off-topic? Heh...grand WP tradition. Yeah, this one’s pretty much dead.
The_Face_of_Boo
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10 Jun 2018, 11:38 am
AngelRho wrote:
Peacesells wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
So he only wanted to genocide just some cities only? Oh, that's comforting.
The Bible is not supposed to be comforting. It's pointless to discuss with many atheists about religion because they want to talk about it only from an atheistic point of view.
Well said. The Bible wasn’t written to “be” anything. It’s just information. How you choose to interpret that may evoke any number of emotions, but that was never the purpose of the Bible as a whole. A lot of passages from Psalms and the Epistles certainly can be comforting and encouraging.
It’s also important to understand the difference between religion and the relationship of the believer and God. Religion on its own can be temporarily comforting, but I think it ends up being ritualistic and loses its meaning. An actual relationship with God? I’ve seen some amazing stuff happen in people’s lives.
The atheist point of view, exactly. I just love how anti-theists expect believers to accept the premise that God doesn’t exist and THEN try to prove that He does. They are so desperate to distance themselves from God that they can’t even accept our premise that God exists even for the sake of argument. And I don’t even mean what they refer to as “the Christian God” or the “Abrahamic God.” They can’t accept the premise of the possibility that any god even CAN exist.
If there's any some form of god that exists, it's certainly not the same god mentioned in the earthly books.
That god seems to be so careless about the state of the world, while the Abrahamic God seemed to be so involved in human lives and was so paranoid that many may stop worshiping him.
Quote:
They are so desperate to distance themselves from God that they can’t even accept our premise that God exists even for the sake of argument.
This is a silly shrink analysis, an atheist doesn't even believe in God. Atheism = total absence of faith, we have no motif to distance ourselves from something we don't even believe in its existence.
The_Face_of_Boo
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10 Jun 2018, 11:39 am
10 Jun 2018, 11:41 am
AngelRho
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10 Jun 2018, 1:22 pm
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Peacesells wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
So he only wanted to genocide just some cities only? Oh, that's comforting.
The Bible is not supposed to be comforting. It's pointless to discuss with many atheists about religion because they want to talk about it only from an atheistic point of view.
Well said. The Bible wasn’t written to “be” anything. It’s just information. How you choose to interpret that may evoke any number of emotions, but that was never the purpose of the Bible as a whole. A lot of passages from Psalms and the Epistles certainly can be comforting and encouraging.
It’s also important to understand the difference between religion and the relationship of the believer and God. Religion on its own can be temporarily comforting, but I think it ends up being ritualistic and loses its meaning. An actual relationship with God? I’ve seen some amazing stuff happen in people’s lives.
The atheist point of view, exactly. I just love how anti-theists expect believers to accept the premise that God doesn’t exist and THEN try to prove that He does. They are so desperate to distance themselves from God that they can’t even accept our premise that God exists even for the sake of argument. And I don’t even mean what they refer to as “the Christian God” or the “Abrahamic God.” They can’t accept the premise of the possibility that any god even CAN exist.
If there's any some form of god that exists, it's certainly not the same god mentioned in the earthly books.
That god seems to be so careless about the state of the world, while the Abrahamic God seemed to be so involved in human lives and was so paranoid that many may stop worshiping him.
Quote:
They are so desperate to distance themselves from God that they can’t even accept our premise that God exists even for the sake of argument.
This is a silly shrink analysis, an atheist doesn't even believe in God. Atheism = total absence of faith, we have no motif to distance ourselves from something we don't even believe in its existence.
You said “if there’s any.” Does that mean you believe there could be?
Ok, so you aren’t a deist. That’s a relief. I actually find deists more annoying than anti-theists. Of course, I probably shouldn’t have said that, because now you’ll probably convert to deism just to try my patience.
And why do you think YHWH is paranoid? I don’t see that at all.
I prefer the term “anti-theist.” Most atheists I’ve met don’t hate religion or religious people, and certainly don’t waste their lives provoking or attacking them. They don’t mind discussing their views, but pretty much they’d rather just be left alone about it. Anti-theists, on the other hand, are on a mission. It’s how obvious it is I find the most amusing, they way they’ll trot the old Skeptics Annotated sawhorse like it’s some kind of nuclear option.
What it really boils down to is what you’ve already said, Boo.
Quote:
the Abrahamic God seemed to be so involved in human lives and was so paranoid that many may stop worshiping him.
You don’t like God. Simple. Easy. Why can’t anti-theists just admit that much and move on?
