Response to "If you are a white person... "

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dorkseid
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15 Sep 2021, 12:12 pm

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:

When white Aspies interact with white NTs, something about us seems off. We're often labeled weird or sarcastic or jerks.

When white Aspies interact with non-white NTs, something about us seems off. We're often labeled racist. It's essentially prejudice (our skin color) + NT privilege (our autistic weirdness). Our offness is picked up on by non-white NTs. The assumption is, because we're white, it must be that we're acting weird because we're racist. For the "colorblind" white Aspies who refute this, you must live in a non-diverse, almost exclusively white-centric world.

A L S O : At least the black guy hassled by police has fellow blacks who can empathize with him for the discrimination. Blacks can't imagine any white person is hassled by police. Whites assume that if a white person is hassled by police, he must be guilty of something.

I would also like to add interactions between ND men and NT women. If we accidently interrupt a woman while speaking or overexplain something, it is immediately assumed that we are being misogynists and mansplaining. No consideration is ever given to the fact that we make the exact same social mistakes when interacting with other men.

Last edited by dorkseid on 15 Sep 2021, 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

magz
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15 Sep 2021, 12:16 pm

dorkseid wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

dorkseid wrote:

Absolutely!

I am not living in some delusional fantasy world in which no white person lives in poverty, white disabled and ND people are never othered or marginalized, and white same-sex couples never face homophobia.

Where exactly did she claim that? :scratch:

It's a lovely strawman to argue against but that's all it is.

Quote:

If You Are a White Person...

... You can travel alone or with your spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with you.

I think that's stretching the meaning of her words a bit.
Or should she always add "for not being white" at the end of every sentence?

I have experienced white privilege in traveling. That's actually the main context where I saw it so obviously that even from the privileged position it was blatantly visible.
It's not about affording to travel nor about being immune to other forms of discrimination. It's about non-whites (especially Arabs here) being routinely searched, questioned, etc. while whites are just let go after a quick glance.

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dorkseid
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15 Sep 2021, 12:21 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

dorkseid wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

dorkseid wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

dorkseid wrote:

At the very least, I clearly understand matters better than she does..

Are you sure?

Where exactly did she claim that? :scratch:

It's a lovely strawman to argue against but that's all it is.

Quote:

If You Are a White Person...

... You can travel alone or with your spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with you.

Not explicitly mentioning those issues isn't the same as her explicitly claiming they don't exist. Keep piling hay brother.

Incorrect. By opening with the phrase "if you are white", the article is explicitly directing its claims at all white people, including homosexuals. I have already fully explained this.

Last edited by magz on 15 Sep 2021, 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.: Personal attack removed

dorkseid
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15 Sep 2021, 12:27 pm

magz wrote:

I think that's stretching the meaning of her words a bit.
Or should she always add "for not being white" at the end of every sentence?

Again, you are completely missing the point.

The article is claiming that if you are a white person, then you never will experience any of these situations. Period. It does not make any exceptions. How many time am I going to have explain this?!

Last edited by dorkseid on 15 Sep 2021, 12:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

magz
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15 Sep 2021, 12:29 pm

dorkseid wrote:

The article is claiming that if you are a white person, then you never will experience any of these situations. Period. It does not make any exceptions.

Or this is how you interpret it.
By the manner it's written, it doesn't seem to aim at being mathematically precise.

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dorkseid
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15 Sep 2021, 12:30 pm

magz wrote:

dorkseid wrote:

The article is claiming that if you are a white person, then you never will experience any of these situations. Period. It does not make any exceptions.

Or this is how you interpret it.
By the way it's written, it doesn't seem to aim at being mathematically precise.

Show where the article makes any exceptions to the claims that it explicitly states are generalizable to all white people?

If that was not the intent of the author, then the failure to adequately communicate her intended message is hers and hers alone. Perhaps she should learn how to write.

magz
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15 Sep 2021, 12:33 pm

Can you link the article in question in its original context?
The opening post links only the scientific article about unemployment among autistics.
The rest of what you quote in the OP does not look like written under scientific rigor.

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funeralxempire
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15 Sep 2021, 12:35 pm

dorkseid wrote:

Incorrect. By opening with the phrase "if you are white", the article is explicitly directing its claims at all white people, including homosexuals. I have already fully explained this.

You have already claimed it.
However your claims are all based on an unreasonably precise interpretation and your defence of that reading so far has been to call everyone who disagrees stupid.

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dorkseid
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15 Sep 2021, 12:38 pm

magz wrote:

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:

Re-read the thread. Go to page ONE and scroll for my name/avatar, and read. I don't feel like reposting my experiences because you don't feel like going back and reading them.

You share your experience of being autistic in Libya and America.
It is true that light skin does not shield you from discrimination for other reasons.
It is true here, too. Probably even more - exactly because of the relative phenotypical homogenity.

No. That was me, not ez.

magz
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15 Sep 2021, 12:38 pm

dorkseid wrote:

magz wrote:

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:

Re-read the thread. Go to page ONE and scroll for my name/avatar, and read. I don't feel like reposting my experiences because you don't feel like going back and reading them.

No. That was me, not ez.

Yes, we've sorted it out.

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dorkseid
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15 Sep 2021, 12:47 pm

Fnord wrote:

As implied in Ms. McIntosh's list, "White Indifference" to the struggles of non-whites is a "White Privilege". I trust her claims more than any counter-claims due to her superior education and credentials, which counter-claimants seem to lack in abundance.[/color]

Quote:

Appeal to Authority
argumentum ad verecundiam

(also known as: argument from authority, ipse dixit)

Description: Insisting that a claim is true simply because a valid authority or expert on the issue said it was true, without any other supporting evidence offered.

If someone walked up to me and showed me their 4 PHDs, and then claimed that the earth is flat; their 'superior education and credentials' would not supersede the fact that they are making a claim which clearly conflicts with reality.

Another RL example:

magz
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15 Sep 2021, 12:54 pm

You are right that when you interpret these words with mathematical precision, there are lots of non-included exceptions.
However, I very much doubt mathematical precision was ever intended by their author.

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Fnord
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15 Sep 2021, 1:09 pm

dorkseid wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Quote:

Argument from Incredulity

Also known as argument from personal incredulity, appeal to common sense, or the divine fallacy, is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition must be false because it contradicts one's personal expectations or beliefs, or is difficult to imagine. Example: "I believe she's wrong, so she must be wrong."

Your move.

dorkseid
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15 Sep 2021, 2:10 pm

magz wrote:

When I asked people on WP what "white privilege" is, they told me about... simply not being harassed for not being white. I believe it should never be a privilege not to be harassed, it should be the norm.

That is still an extremely lacking definition. If one were to take it literally, then getting harassed for being white still counts as not getting harassed for not being white.

magz wrote:

But, apparently, some American non-whites believe in "white privilege" in a completely different meaning.

In my experiences IRL, the people who have used 'white privilege' as a personal attack have almost exclusively always been white themselves. Non-whites invoking white privilege in its 'woke' sense seem significantly more common in media than IRL, and I am always skeptical regarding the true motivations of any media personality.

magz
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15 Sep 2021, 2:15 pm

I was refering to ezbzbfcg2's two personal stories of Black Americans expressing surprise when seeing a White man in a worse situation than theirs.

Surely your stories may be different.

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dorkseid
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15 Sep 2021, 3:03 pm

magz wrote:

What I posted in the OP is the article in the form in which I have encountered it online on numerous occasions. That is what I'm responding to.

Fnord posted a version that he said is the original. I posted my thought on that as well.

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