Of what real value is evolutionary "knowledge"?

Page 9 of 22 [ 352 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ... 22 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

11 May 2008, 10:27 am

Ragtime wrote:

Sedaka wrote:

yes of course creationism if falsifiable by science

That is delusion.

Unless the "science" you refer to is corrupted by human bias (as I've previously suggested). Creationism is not falsifiable; that's perhaps the most absurd claim I've ever heard.

It depends on which version of creationism. What predictions does creationism make, and are those predictions consistent with observations that can be made? YEC would predict that speciation can not occur. This is false; speciation has been observed on numerous occasions. YEC would predict the age of the Earth to be less than 10,000 years; this is not supported by geological evidence. YEC would predict that organisms are perfectly fitted to their environment (unless your God lacks either omnipotence or benevolence) but in reality most organisms are not. Based on these, I would say that creationism has been falsified. Quite soundly, too.

And frankly, your conspiracy theories aren't very convincing, since even among theists creationism is a fringe movement. It's not only atheists/anti-theists that promote evolution, so claiming that evolution is a conspiracy cooked up to turn people away from God is not only excessively paranoid, but also patently absurd.

_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

11 May 2008, 10:29 am

Ragtime wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Escuerd wrote:

Kalister1 wrote:

:jaw drops for the third time:

That was the most ret*d video ever.

I could swear I posted an even worse one featuring Ben Stein.

Yes you did. You added to the list of people I hate when you did that.

Ah, evolution. Bringing people closer together in love and respect, one hatred at a time. :thumleft:

I dislike stupid people. It would be one thing if he were bringing up genuine issues, but he wasn't He was spreading what had to have been deliberate misinformation, and I can't really see how you could condone that. Of course evolution "doesn't explain what keeps the planets in orbit around the sun." It doesn't attempt to. Newton and Kepler already took care of that question, so why should biologists worry about it?

_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

11 May 2008, 10:37 am

Ragtime wrote:

See, Christianity teaches to love our enemies, and "enemies" is certainly a stronger term than simply "people who believe in evolution", so our command to love people is all the more applicable to them. If evolutionists don't listen to our arguments, we don't hate them for it. But you just admitted to hate Ben Stein. And I hear lots of hatred in the evolution threads coming from the evolutionists, but iamnotaparakeet and I have no hatred towards you -- to us, it's just a disagreement on positions, not a call to arms.
But this hatred from you and other anti-God people in the evolution threads evidences that you're on the wrong side of the spiritual spectrum. Consider that for a moment.

"Me and other anti-God people..." As I have pointed out before, I am Christian. Presbyterian to be exact. I have listened to your arguments, and frankly they are crap. We aren't the ones interviewing people under false pretenses, or claiming that "science makes you kill people," or advocating ignorance as an acceptable alternative to acknowledging reality.

I created another thread to discuss the evidence for and against evolution/creation. If you want me to listen to your arguments, go ahead and post there. However, your claims have no basis in fact, so I doubt you will feel up to the challenge.

_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

deathchibi
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Age: 134
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,994
Location: earth

11 May 2008, 10:38 am

5 sence :lol:

_________________
I shall rule the world with an iron spork!! !!
http://www.imvu.com/catalog/web_mypage. ... r=10671143
4th sin: sloth.

Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

11 May 2008, 10:39 am

Orwell wrote:

Except that YEC isn't and cannot be. Frankly, you have ignored apparent age theory where God created a world that APPEARED that old. You have also ignored theistic evolution which says that animals evolved to their current forms after the ark. Frankly, YEC is not falsifiable, nor could it be sense anything that could falsify it can be explained away in an ad hoc manner.

Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,927
Location: Dallas, Texas

11 May 2008, 10:42 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

All this arguing brings me to my secondary point: Of what real value is all this arguing about evolution? What grand good is going to be accomplished if creationists begin to believe in evolution? WTF is gonna change the world for the better if creationists became converted to believe in a politicized "science" that has not been proven conclusively to have occurred, or to be in the process of occurring?

Well, the value is that it prevents bad science from getting into the school system and justifies the proper conclusions.

Note to AG: politicized science IS bad science! The bad science in the classroom stops with evolution ceasing to be taught as a fact! Teach it as what it is, a near-retarded theory. (Sorry for insulting your religion.)

Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

11 May 2008, 10:44 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Apparent age theory is a load of bull. Essentially, the claim here is that God is deliberately deceptive, and that theory only came about after it was too well established that the Earth is indeed quite old for them to seriously dispute that. Theistic evolution has a variety of subtypes, but evolution is certainly an ongoing process, and can be seen in our own time. It is also a historical process, as a variety of transitional fossils have shown. At this point, YEC can only be held to by one willing to reject reality. All available evidence points to YEC being false.

_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

11 May 2008, 10:45 am

Ragtime wrote:

Ah, evolution. Bringing people closer together in love and respect, one hatred at a time. :thumleft:

He was upset, and it is not wrong for him to be so. Anyone should have been upset by Mr. Stein's folly on that page.

Quote:

It isn't just that Orwell disagrees or anyone else, it's that the points of disagreement were stupid. Frankly, your side doesn't have a lot of arguments, which is why we all get mad at you for your stupid posturing and because the movement is not only bad, it shows strong signs of intellectual dishonesty.

Quote:

But this hatred from you and other anti-God people in the evolution threads evidences that you're on the wrong side of the spiritual spectrum. Consider that for a moment.

Anti-God? Because we know what constitutes good science vs bad science? Look, to hate the annoying for being excessively so is perhaps bad, but quite understandable.

Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

11 May 2008, 10:47 am

Ragtime wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Well, the value is that it prevents bad science from getting into the school system and justifies the proper conclusions.

But evolution IS fact. It has been observed. It explains a wide variety of natural phenomena and makes useful and accurate predictions. Evolution is not politicized. Really, there is far more basis to reject Newtonian mechanics than there is to reject evolution.

_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,927
Location: Dallas, Texas

11 May 2008, 10:47 am

Kalister1 wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Quatermass wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Geez, at least if non-creationists get converted, they can go to Heaven. But wtf are evolutionists offering creationists? Nothing but endless arguing with no great goal.

Heaven is a false promise. Evolution will never guarantee you an afterlife but at least explains where you came from.

To quote the Big Giant Head,
"That's extremely underwhelming."
Seriously, of what great value is "explaining where I came from", that it would be worth all the vitriol from evolutionists in these threads?

The vitriol stems from the fact that you are denser than lead, and continue to make yourself look like a fool.

No. The sane reaction to someone seeming to be a fool would be sympathy. Vitriol comes from the fact that you are evil. Your argument is extremely juvenile, along the lines of "He made me hit him!"

Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

11 May 2008, 10:48 am

Ragtime wrote:

Yes, which is another argument as to why ID is bad science. Well, partially right, it should be taught as a scientific theory, and evolution is a well-supported scientific theory with branches of biology dedicated to understanding it. Trust me, Ragtime, I don't have a lot of stuff at stake with evolution, I just dislike idiocy and foolishness and ID represents a fair level of both.

Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

11 May 2008, 10:50 am

Ragtime wrote:

No. The sane reaction to someone seeming to be a fool would be sympathy. Vitriol comes from the fact that you are evil. Your argument is extremely juvenile, along the lines of "He made me hit him!"

This is an AS forum, Ragtime. Most of us do not suffer fools willingly. The vitriol is because of, as AG pointed out, the ID movement's blatant intellectual dishonesty. Calling someone "evil" hardly seems mature.

_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

11 May 2008, 10:51 am

Ragtime wrote:

No. The sane reaction to someone seeming to be a fool would be sympathy. Vitriol comes from the fact that you are evil. Your argument is extremely juvenile, along the lines of "He made me hit him!"

Sympathy? In your case, pity. Frankly, his reaction IS sane on some level because of the fact that it is not JUST that you are a fool, but also a very self-righteous one as well. Also, it is not a juvenile argument, it is just a valid statement on the affairs happening, the vitriol IS a response to you.

Gromit
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 19 May 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,302
Location: In Cognito

11 May 2008, 11:10 am

Ragtime wrote:

Vitriol comes from the fact that you are evil. Your argument is extremely juvenile, along the lines of "He made me hit him!"

Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,927
Location: Dallas, Texas

11 May 2008, 11:23 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Ah, evolution. Bringing people closer together in love and respect, one hatred at a time. :thumleft:

He was upset, and it is not wrong for him to be so. Anyone should have been upset by Mr. Stein's folly on that page.

That Mr. Stein was added to the list of people Orwell hates is a red flag.

AG wrote:

Quote:

One would not need to be dishonest in any way to point out that the evidence (the evidence honestly arrived at, that is) shows evolution to be shabby and full of holes. By contrast, God is personally real to billions of people all over the world. Not just that, but the Bible shows far more scientific and historical proof of being true than the theory of evolution.

Scientists' pathetic defenses of evolution are laughable and sad, and quite clearly twisted and biased toward perpetuating their own careers.
Remember: just because a scientist makes a claim does not mean that claim is necessarily scientific.

AG wrote:

Quote:

But this hatred from you and other anti-God people in the evolution threads evidences that you're on the wrong side of the spiritual spectrum. Consider that for a moment.

Anti-God? Because we know what constitutes good science vs bad science? Look, to hate the annoying for being excessively so is perhaps bad, but quite understandable.

Oh, I understand it very well. Hate is man's natural response toward those who annoy him. Quite a Godless reaction, congratulations!

Guess you guys at least prove that God isn't real in your personal lives, but as I explained in another thread recently, the ostrich-head-in-the-sand strategy is not valid for disproving God. Just cuz you don't recognize Him doesn't mean there's a lack of evidence of His existence.

Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,927
Location: Dallas, Texas

11 May 2008, 11:33 am

Gromit wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Vitriol comes from the fact that you are evil. Your argument is extremely juvenile, along the lines of "He made me hit him!"

I assume you're implying a contradiction between my quotes?
Fact One:
There are evil people.
Fact Two:
God loves them, and so should we.
Fact Three:
Calling someone evil may be merely stating a fact, and one that needs to be considered at this juncture, since it undermines one's intellectual honesty, among other ill effects.

Page 9 of 22 [ 352 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ... 22 Next

Jump to:

Of what real value is evolutionary "knowledge"? Post Reply New Topic

Of what real value is evolutionary "knowledge"?