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Lintar
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29 Mar 2015, 9:16 pm

pcuser wrote:
Lintar wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
There are also events that are probabilistic and not deterministic, such as radioactive decay. That just functions outside of causality (or maybe it has a cause that we have not yet been able to identify). Perhaps universes pop into existence in a probabilistic way, there is just no way to know right now. And to continue on my train of unfounded thought: perhaps universes cause other universes to exist. That could possibly explain the finely-tuned universe, as finely-tuned universes may be better at causing new universes to exist. Of course there is zero evidence for this, it's just something I was thinking of a while ago.


'Trollcatman', you don't sound very confident here. I had always been given the very strong impression that extreme atheists (like Dan Dennett, Susan Blackmore) believed that, regardless of the probabilistic basis of Q.M., nature was, at bottom, purely deterministic. Now you are trying to say it might not be. So which is it?

If nature is not strictly deterministic, then free will exists. Free will is an issue that makes most, though certainly not all, atheists uncomfortable.


Why would free will make an atheist uncomfortable. I'm an atheist. Doesn't the very idea of there being no God correlate directly with free will. Suggesting we didn't have it would imply that we are somehow controlled by an unseen power...


Well, people like Daniel Dennett, Susan Blackmore and Sam Harris have said that due to the purely deterministic nature of nature, free will is largely illusory. We only think we make free, rational decisions, but that ultimately the events that led to where we are in the present had effects that ensured that we came to the decisions we made. It was inevitable that we would choose one path in life over another.

I don't believe this myself. It's ridiculously simplistic, relying as it does on an understanding of reality that is outdated (i.e. classical, Newtonian physics).



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29 Mar 2015, 9:23 pm

Oldavid wrote:
This, Lintar, might be interesting to you:

http://www.sjcrothers.plasmaresources.com/PhD.html

And his criticism of "Black Holes":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... RsGPq77X0Q


Interesting article. Saved it to USB stick. Will have to view the clip later on, it's about 44 minutes long, and I have been sitting here for hours now. Need to get out and about in the sunshine. :salut:



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29 Mar 2015, 9:26 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
Lintar wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
There is no Easter Bunny there is no Santa Clause, there is no Tooth Fairy or Boogie Man, or Sand Man, Jack Frost is not real either and neither is God it is all mythology.


Otaku, this response of yours is truly idiotic. To equate God with Father Christmas just goes to show that you accept the inane ramblings of the current saints of 'New Atheism' (i.e. Harris, Dawkins, Dennett and their ilk), and haven't even made the effort to truly understand what it is you think you are rejecting.

Is this the sad, low level that disbelief has sunk to?
It is not sad it is a fact, belief is something children do so it is time to put away childish things! The stories about god and or gods can be found in the mythology section at your local library!


Putting away childish things. Isn't that what Jesus says in the Bible? Yes, I do believe he does!



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29 Mar 2015, 10:02 pm

Lintar wrote:
Well, people like Daniel Dennett, Susan Blackmore and Sam Harris have said that due to the purely deterministic nature of nature, free will is largely illusory. We only think we make free, rational decisions, but that ultimately the events that led to where we are in the present had effects that ensured that we came to the decisions we made. It was inevitable that we would choose one path in life over another.

I don't believe this myself. It's ridiculously simplistic, relying as it does on an understanding of reality that is outdated (i.e. classical, Newtonian physics).


I tend to agree, until we can find a way to measure position and velocity of everything then we cannot as Newton thought see the world as something to be totally understood and mecahincal. However I find the concept of free will to also be rather simplistic, as at its base it treats everyone as being the same, having the same pressures, having the same coping mechanism, it does not allow for natural variances in our mental state, let alone the actions of others in determining the actions we supposedly take with a "free will".


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30 Mar 2015, 12:32 am

DentArthurDent wrote:
However I find the concept of free will to also be rather simplistic, as at its base it treats everyone as being the same, having the same pressures, having the same coping mechanism, it does not allow for natural variances in our mental state, let alone the actions of others in determining the actions we supposedly take with a "free will".
Where the hell did you get your "concept" of free will from? Mao's "little Red Book", perhaps?



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30 Mar 2015, 3:06 am

Lintar wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Lintar wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
There is no Easter Bunny there is no Santa Clause, there is no Tooth Fairy or Boogie Man, or Sand Man, Jack Frost is not real either and neither is God it is all mythology.


Otaku, this response of yours is truly idiotic. To equate God with Father Christmas just goes to show that you accept the inane ramblings of the current saints of 'New Atheism' (i.e. Harris, Dawkins, Dennett and their ilk), and haven't even made the effort to truly understand what it is you think you are rejecting.

Is this the sad, low level that disbelief has sunk to?
It is not sad it is a fact, belief is something children do so it is time to put away childish things! The stories about god and or gods can be found in the mythology section at your local library!


Putting away childish things. Isn't that what Jesus says in the Bible? Yes, I do believe he does!
The bible is childish obsolete and outdated it is nothing more than a book of mythology and fairytales as a means to guide a persons life, it is outdated and humanity no longer needs such obsolete primitive beliefs in order to get ahead in life! In short we don't need to believe in a god anymore we are more advanced and evolved to do so!


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30 Mar 2015, 3:39 am

There is no god, no magical man so grow the hell up and see reality, when you die nothing happens it is nothing no afterlife no nothing so enjoy the life you have while you can improve yourself and get a great job and be happy until you die of old age, regret nothing!Without the fear of an imaginary invisible bearded man who has insecurity issues and is a fascist dictating your life you are free,you have free will! Only the religious have no free will regardless of their imaginary friend saying they have free will they do not they are under control and not free!You fail to heed my advice youll end uplike these guys! God didnt create the internet, man did and if he exists he has no control over the internet he is weak a coward and obsolete compared to man if he does but yet he does not exist!


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aghogday
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30 Mar 2015, 8:18 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
There is no god, no magical man so grow the hell up and see reality, when you die nothing happens it is nothing no afterlife no nothing so enjoy the life you have while you can improve yourself and get a great job and be happy until you die of old age, regret nothing!Without the fear of an imaginary invisible bearded man who has insecurity issues and is a fascist dictating your life you are free,you have free will! Only the religious have no free will regardless of their imaginary friend saying they have free will they do not they are under control and not free!You fail to heed my advice youll end uplike these guys! God didnt create the internet, man did and if he exists he has no control over the internet he is weak a coward and obsolete compared to man if he does but yet he does not exist!


Nature AKA GOD creates humans.

It doesn't take a 'Rocket Scientist' who has 'RARELY TO never got his or her hands AND FEET soiled by the dirt of Mother Nature' to figure that one out. IN FACT, 'ROCKET SCIENTISTS' ARE OFTEN FUNCTIONALLY DISABLED IN UNDERSTANDING GOD MORE FULLY IN TRUTH AND LIGHT THIS WAY.

However, Nature also creates the Internet as well, as it is a reflection of at least part of the Nature of human beings, as far as solving equations go with abstract constructs manifest from human reasoning.

But it still
takes the creator
human of the Internet
to truly create new and innovative
ART ON THAT SAME BONY ABSTRACT
CONSTRUCT OF REASONED EQUATION
THAT IS THE MANIFESTATION
OF WHAT 'WE SEE',
AS THE INTERNET
AT CORE.

And the same
applies to GOD.

Humans can
mix and match the

ingredients to make something
truly new and innovative in Art of Mind

And that is PRECISELY AND ARTISTICALLY

WHAT THE GOD OF NATURE DOES WITH HUMAN.

YA, SEE, TO TRULY AND IN ENLIGHTENED AND AWAKENED WAYS OF UNDERSTANDING GOD
AND OR NATURE ONE MUST LEARN THE ART OF MIND AND BODY BALANCED IN MOTHER NATURE
AND HUMAN NATURE IN TRUTH AND LIGHT AKA GOD AND
NOT JUST THE INTERNET SKELETON
OF THE HUMAN MIND WITHOUT
MIND AND BODY BALANCE.

SO IN OTHER WORDS,
YA CAN BE A 'TALKING
HEAD OR A HUMAN';

THAT IS THE CHOICE OF THE 'ATHEIST'
AND 'FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIAN ALIKE'.

AS TRULY THEY ARE TWO 'PEAS IN A POD';
that at least in Internet Land, OVERALL,
are not PEACEFUL, OVERALL,
AS THEY ARE SiMPLY
MISSING

INTERNET BALANCE
IN ART/LOVE/FLESH/BLOOD
AND REASON/EQUATION/COMPUTER
SKELETON MIND.

AND that is the GOD/NATURE/HUMAN NATURE/
INTERNET Lesson for the day, so far...;)

SIGNED,

(:..'Inter-NET-Yoda'..(;


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30 Mar 2015, 12:14 pm

Here is my latest PROOF, not only of a Shared/Collective Consciousness

AND THE PHENOMENON OF SYNCHRONICITY;

BUT ALSO PROOF OF GOD, for folks who can 'see' and 'hear',

a little deeper with MORE THAN eYES AND eARS.

http://katiemiafrederick.com/2015/03/30/six-magick/

THERE ARE literally AND METAPHORICALLY over 100 synchronicities,

if not over 200, depending on who is viewing the potential

OF THAT IN THE linked one effort blog post,

IN THIS ONE 'small' 7588 word effort, as the '7000 word man', haha!, per one of those synchronicities, as named here before on this Internet SITE, by someone else, when it is far from the literal truth, at around 1000 words or so, per post, on average.

Now I limit that to size of singular efforts in blog post links, as to not 'kill' the server capacity of the website here, HA! ha!..;)


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30 Mar 2015, 12:23 pm

aghogday wrote:
Here is my latest PROOF, not only of a Shared/Collective Consciousness

AND THE PHENOMENON OF SYNCHRONICITY;

BUT ALSO PROOF OF GOD, for folks who can 'see' and 'hear',

a little deeper with MORE THAN eYES AND eARS.

http://katiemiafrederick.com/2015/03/30/six-magick/

THERE ARE literally AND METAPHORICALLY over 100 synchronicities,

if not over 200, depending on who is viewing the potential

OF THAT IN THE linked one effort blog post,

IN THIS ONE 'small' 7588 word effort, as the '7000 word man', haha!, per one of those synchronicities, as named here before on this Internet SITE, by someone else, when it is far from the literal truth, at around 1000 words or so, per post, on average.

Now I limit that to size of singular efforts in blog post links, as to not 'kill' the server capacity of the website here, HA! ha!..;)

Collective consciousness as is commonly applied borders on pseudoscience. But I have to say I think Jung might have been onto something. I think a view of the human spirit (for lack of a better term) as confined to each individual human body is entirely too limiting. I do think we share an intuitive connection.



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30 Mar 2015, 1:15 pm

AngelRho wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Here is my latest PROOF, not only of a Shared/Collective Consciousness

AND THE PHENOMENON OF SYNCHRONICITY;

BUT ALSO PROOF OF GOD, for folks who can 'see' and 'hear',

a little deeper with MORE THAN eYES AND eARS.

http://katiemiafrederick.com/2015/03/30/six-magick/

THERE ARE literally AND METAPHORICALLY over 100 synchronicities,

if not over 200, depending on who is viewing the potential

OF THAT IN THE linked one effort blog post,

IN THIS ONE 'small' 7588 word effort, as the '7000 word man', haha!, per one of those synchronicities, as named here before on this Internet SITE, by someone else, when it is far from the literal truth, at around 1000 words or so, per post, on average.

Now I limit that to size of singular efforts in blog post links, as to not 'kill' the server capacity of the website here, HA! ha!..;)

Collective consciousness as is commonly applied borders on pseudoscience. But I have to say I think Jung might have been onto something. I think a view of the human spirit (for lack of a better term) as confined to each individual human body is entirely too limiting. I do think we share an intuitive connection.


Truly, the FACT AND EMOTIONBODY AND MIND BALANCE of the matter AND FULLER HUMAN POTENTIAL IS scientists and folks who practice science, overall, are often borderline PSEUDO-human beings.

HaHA! that IS BOTH IRONIC, AND TRULY SAD, AT least to me..:(.....

AND EVEN more ironic, even science now, suggests that folks who live in a 'mechanical cognition mind-set' repress the MUCH HIGHER POTENTIAL OF THE 'social cognition/empathic mind', also known as what SETS 'us' apart from Snakes and Great White sharks, and such as that....AKA HUMANITY.

Human imagination/Creativity DRIVING HIGHER LEVELS OF PHYSICAL INTELLIGENCE ACTUALLY PRACTICED in real FLESH AND BLOOD life to regulate emotions, integrate senses, AND INCREASE COGNITIVE executive functioning through greater focus and short term working memory

IS AT LEAST 'One GREEN PILL' 'CURE' to bring humanity BACK, LIKE THE PHOENIX rising from the ashes of systemizing science per mechanized Robot/Zombie minds and bodies out of balance, making the Zombie Apocalypse A real potential HUMAN CULTURAL MEME COME TRUE AS NIGHTMARE instead of fantasy, in metaphor of course..:)


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30 Mar 2015, 9:11 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
Lintar wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Lintar wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
There is no Easter Bunny there is no Santa Clause, there is no Tooth Fairy or Boogie Man, or Sand Man, Jack Frost is not real either and neither is God it is all mythology.


Otaku, this response of yours is truly idiotic. To equate God with Father Christmas just goes to show that you accept the inane ramblings of the current saints of 'New Atheism' (i.e. Harris, Dawkins, Dennett and their ilk), and haven't even made the effort to truly understand what it is you think you are rejecting.

Is this the sad, low level that disbelief has sunk to?
It is not sad it is a fact, belief is something children do so it is time to put away childish things! The stories about god and or gods can be found in the mythology section at your local library!


Putting away childish things. Isn't that what Jesus says in the Bible? Yes, I do believe he does!
The bible is childish obsolete and outdated it is nothing more than a book of mythology and fairytales as a means to guide a persons life, it is outdated and humanity no longer needs such obsolete primitive beliefs in order to get ahead in life! In short we don't need to believe in a god anymore we are more advanced and evolved to do so!


So people who don't believe in the reality of God are 'more evolved', are they?

8O :roll: :lmao:

You wish!



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30 Mar 2015, 9:15 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
There is no god, no magical man so grow the hell up and see reality, when you die nothing happens it is nothing no afterlife no nothing so enjoy the life you have while you can improve yourself and get a great job and be happy until you die of old age, regret nothing!Without the fear of an imaginary invisible bearded man who has insecurity issues and is a fascist dictating your life you are free,you have free will! Only the religious have no free will regardless of their imaginary friend saying they have free will they do not they are under control and not free!You fail to heed my advice youll end uplike these guys! God didnt create the internet, man did and if he exists he has no control over the internet he is weak a coward and obsolete compared to man if he does but yet he does not exist!


I don't believe in a 'magical man' either. This is yet one more attempt by an atheist to deliberately misrepresent what theists really do believe, in order to demolish the proverbial strawman and then be able to claim yet another false victory in the imaginary 'war' between science and religion.

So unbelievably lame.



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30 Mar 2015, 10:03 pm

@Lintar: Those who can't, troll.



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31 Mar 2015, 10:28 pm

Lintar wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Lintar wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Lintar wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
There is no Easter Bunny there is no Santa Clause, there is no Tooth Fairy or Boogie Man, or Sand Man, Jack Frost is not real either and neither is God it is all mythology.


Otaku, this response of yours is truly idiotic. To equate God with Father Christmas just goes to show that you accept the inane ramblings of the current saints of 'New Atheism' (i.e. Harris, Dawkins, Dennett and their ilk), and haven't even made the effort to truly understand what it is you think you are rejecting.

Is this the sad, low level that disbelief has sunk to?
It is not sad it is a fact, belief is something children do so it is time to put away childish things! The stories about god and or gods can be found in the mythology section at your local library!


Putting away childish things. Isn't that what Jesus says in the Bible? Yes, I do believe he does!
The bible is childish obsolete and outdated it is nothing more than a book of mythology and fairytales as a means to guide a persons life, it is outdated and humanity no longer needs such obsolete primitive beliefs in order to get ahead in life! In short we don't need to believe in a god anymore we are more advanced and evolved to do so!


So people who don't believe in the reality of God are 'more evolved', are they?

8O :roll: :lmao:

You wish!
No need most religious people reject evolution so fail to evolve themselves!


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31 Mar 2015, 10:33 pm

Here is your god,it is all a ruse for I revealed the man behind the curtain!


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You are very likely an aspie
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