Tiller aborted

Page 10 of 19 [ 294 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 ... 19 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

MattShizzle
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2009
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 777

03 Jun 2009, 7:02 pm

If someone tells you to chop some oak up for them for firewood and you bring in cut up acorns they won't be too happy.

Ancalagon
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,302

03 Jun 2009, 7:12 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Yes, murder is wrong, no matter who it's aimed at.

Then why don't you act like this is true, and condemn this murder like you would any other murder?

The commandment is "Thou shalt not kill", not "thou shalt not kill nice people".

Quote:

Now... try to graduate the first grade,

This is not useful.

Quote:

imagine an actual situation :idea:

, one in which it's not possible that no one get hurt. Imagine you approach a terrorist who is about to kill 60,000 people. He is looking at you with a maniacal smile and gibbering something about Allah. He then informs you, with his hand on the trigger, that he will kill all 60,000 with explosives in three seconds, and he doesn't care what you do. He then begins counting: 3... 2...
You have a gun aimed at him. Do you shoot him, or do you let him kill them?

That is a terrible analogy. In the analogy, 60K people are not dead, but will be if action is not taken. In reality, there are 60K victims over a period of thirty years, who are already dead, no matter what is done.

Second, there is no moral debate over whether the victims are actually victims in the analogy.

Quote:

Not so easy, is it? Reciting "Murder is wrong" doesn't exactly get everyone out of that situation in one piece.

It does, actually. In the analogy, killing the terrorist would be justified by that very principle. It would not be wrong, it would be to protect others, so it would not be murder in the first place.

_________________
"A dead thing can go with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it." --G. K. Chesterton

Shadowgirl
Velociraptor

Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 458

03 Jun 2009, 7:13 pm

Orwell wrote:

Shadowgirl wrote:

Then what did that make you at the time? If the baby wasn't a person then then he/she never could be. You are as you start out.

So a caterpillar is actually a butterfly, if it isn't a butterfly it never could be. Everything is as it starts out.

Things change, shadowgirl. I was once an infant, then a small child, now I am (physically at least) a grown man. I did not emerge from my mother's womb a six-foot-tall bearded computer geek. I am not the same thing I was five, ten, or fifteen years ago. You are postulating a sort of constancy that is not justified. A newly fertilized egg is clearly different from a blastocyst is clearly different from a fetus is clearly different from an infant is clearly different from a grown human adult. The boundaries are somewhat fuzzy, yes, and we have to draw a line somewhere. Where should we draw the line, and why?

I'm talking about people not bugs.

Really how would you like to have been aborted and never getting to experience life. Try being thankful for that.
There is also the virtue treat others the way you would like to be treated so really why don't you trade places with that baby.

_________________
How to Know God Personally through Jesus Christ
http://www.ccci.org/

Does God Exist? Here is proof he does.
http://www.everystudent.com/features/is ... 2godMANp2w

Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

03 Jun 2009, 7:28 pm

Shadowgirl wrote:

I'm talking about people not bugs.

It's called an analogy.

Quote:

Really how would you like to have been aborted and never getting to experience life. Try being thankful for that.
There is also the virtue treat others the way you would like to be treated so really why don't you trade places with that baby.

This is just pretty meaningless. Had I been aborted, I would know nothing of it. Anyways, I haven't taken a specific stance here other than being annoyed with both sides of the debate. But again, the issue is whether the fetus is a person. If it is, then "treat others as you would like to be treated" applies. But not everyone agrees that it does.

Tell me, why should a fetus be considered to be a person? "Because it is" is not an answer. You have to give a solid reason.

_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

cognito
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 675

04 Jun 2009, 9:38 am

Shadowgirl wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Shadowgirl wrote:

Then what did that make you at the time? If the baby wasn't a person then then he/she never could be. You are as you start out.

and as most of the pro lifer group forgets 1. Its not your uterus, butt out. 2. You never consider the reasons FOR getting one (rape, inablitly to raise the child that will not be in an abusive enviroment, Sever birth defects (see anaencephasis or missing most of the brain) or etopic pregnacy) 3. Not everyone believes as you do or is religious like you. and the biggie 4. no matter if you make it illegal, it will still happen because some women prefer not carry a child that was the product of rape.

_________________
I am a freak, want to hold my leash?

monty
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Sep 2007
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,741

04 Jun 2009, 9:43 am

The Bible mandates abortion in some circumstances - so why do modern US Christianists believe that it is wrong??

cognito
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 675

04 Jun 2009, 10:11 am

monty wrote:

The Bible mandates abortion in some circumstances - so why do modern US Christianists believe that it is wrong??

can you please cite? I can't recall the bible mentioning ANYTHING on abortion.

_________________
I am a freak, want to hold my leash?

monty
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Sep 2007
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,741

04 Jun 2009, 2:17 pm

In Deuteronomy 22, there are a number of cases in which a woman who has illegal sex must be put to death - (you know, the kind of sex which could make her pregnant). The Bible does not say wait to see if the fornicator or adultress or rape victim is pregnant, and let her deliver her child for adoption and then kill her. It say kill her, and was usually done very quickly after the crime was discovered. Obviously, this will also kill any bastard fetus a woman carries within her. If you believe in the Bible, you must kill to purge the evil of unlicensed sex, including the unborn. The word abortion does not appear, but clearly that is what is ordered.

Quote:

20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you.

22 If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.

23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

Last edited by monty on 04 Jun 2009, 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Shadowgirl
Velociraptor

Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 458

04 Jun 2009, 2:30 pm

monty wrote:

In Deuteronomy 22, there are a number of cases in which a woman who has illegal sex must be put to death - (you know, the kind of sex which could make her pregnant). The Bible does not say wait to see if the fornicator or adultress or rape victim is pregnant, and let her deliver her child for adoption and then kill her. It say kill her, and obviously, this will also kill any bastard fetus she has within her. If you believe in the Bible, you must kill to purge the evil of unlicensed sex, including possible unborn. The word abortion does not appear, but clearly that is what is ordered.

Quote:

That was sadly the culture at the time. That was before Jesus came to say "He who is without sin cast the first stone".
My mom was never married so I would never have been able to live in that time.

_________________
How to Know God Personally through Jesus Christ
http://www.ccci.org/

Does God Exist? Here is proof he does.
http://www.everystudent.com/features/is ... 2godMANp2w

monty
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Sep 2007
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,741

04 Jun 2009, 2:32 pm

Shadowgirl wrote:

That was sadly the culture at the time. That was before Jesus came to say "He who is without sin cast the first stone".
My mom was never married so I would never have been able to live in that time.

Was it merely the culture at the time, or the Word of God telling people what to do??

Also, Jesus explicitly said he did not come to strike down Jewish law:

Quote:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished

Last edited by monty on 04 Jun 2009, 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Shadowgirl
Velociraptor

Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 458

04 Jun 2009, 2:46 pm

monty wrote:

Shadowgirl wrote:

That was sadly the culture at the time. That was before Jesus came to say "He who is without sin cast the first stone".
My mom was never married so I would never have been able to live in that time.

Was it merely the culture at the time, or the Word of God telling people what to do??

That was from the Old Testament and a lot of cultural references are made there. Like marrying your rapist was a cultural reference. The Old Testament is the most confusing to many since things are done differently then in The New Testament which helps clear up the confusion from it.
The word of God is in both don't get me wrong but the red lettered editions are helpful in clearing up obscure details of what God said himself and what was a reference to the way people in certain places and groups lived.

_________________
How to Know God Personally through Jesus Christ
http://www.ccci.org/

Does God Exist? Here is proof he does.
http://www.everystudent.com/features/is ... 2godMANp2w

vibratetogether
Supporting Member

Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 589
Location: WA, USA

04 Jun 2009, 5:45 pm

Shadowgirl wrote:

monty wrote:

Shadowgirl wrote:

That was sadly the culture at the time. That was before Jesus came to say "He who is without sin cast the first stone".
My mom was never married so I would never have been able to live in that time.

Was it merely the culture at the time, or the Word of God telling people what to do??

Just admit it's all ******** and that you're living a lie. SFObvious.

Zornslemma
Raven
Raven

Joined: 2 Jun 2009
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 104

05 Jun 2009, 12:37 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Dr. George "the baby killer" Tiller died the way he lived: murder.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,523709,00.html

Ragtime, Im here to give a warning: In our litigious society, such comments could result in a lawsuit being filed against at the least and at worst law enforcement could regard you as a suspected terrorist. What you are saying could be intepreted as inciting violence and in this day and age such speech is not protected by the 1st amendment.

Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

05 Jun 2009, 1:50 pm

Zornslemma wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Dr. George "the baby killer" Tiller died the way he lived: murder.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,523709,00.html

From an internet forum? Not many people would even notice it if Ragtime pushed to overthrow the government. So, I don't see much reason for him to care. I mean, nobody would even know who to send the lawsuit to without doing some major investigation.

So, I really don't know what the point of this comment is.

MattShizzle
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2009
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 777

05 Jun 2009, 1:59 pm

All they'd have to do is supoena WP for his IP address and then supoena his IP provider for who he is.

Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,927
Location: Dallas, Texas

05 Jun 2009, 2:34 pm

Zornslemma wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Dr. George "the baby killer" Tiller died the way he lived: murder.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,523709,00.html

You are wholly incorrect, sir.

Well, shoot, there's just nothing more to say!

My first sentence covers each and every point that you attempted to make in your post. But, just for fun, let me destroy your post piece by piece:

1. "Ragtime, Im here to give a warning"
It's not a warning; you're threatening me.

2. "such comments could result in a lawsuit being filed"
Duh, that's true of every possible statement!

3. "law enforcement could regard you as a suspected terrorist"
Don't make me laugh! :lol:

Oops, too late...

4. "in this day and age such speech is not protected by the 1st amendment."
"This day and age" has nothing to do with it. The 1st Amendment to the United States Constitution has not been changed, and it guarantees me the right to express my opinion, including blindingly-obvious facts, among which are that killing a baby is MURDER MOST HORRID! If the writers of the Constitution knew that 200 years down the road in 1973 the Supreme Court would have insanely ruled murder of the young and innocent legal, they would clearly have Constitutionally banned abortion, and you know it!

Deal with it.

And DO NOT threaten ME, sir.

_________________
Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.

Last edited by Ragtime on 05 Jun 2009, 2:50 pm, edited 6 times in total.

Page 10 of 19 [ 294 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 ... 19 Next

Jump to:

Tiller aborted Post Reply New Topic

Tiller aborted