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ruveyn
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27 Oct 2010, 12:04 pm

[quote="AngelRho"]

On the other hand, the Temple was CENTRAL to Jewish teaching, cultural tradition, and worship. EVERYTHING centered around temple worship. The destruction basically meant the end of a religion and the beginning of rabbinical Judaism. From what I understand about contemporary Judaism--and you'll have to ask ruveyn if he'll even discuss it, it seems he's the resident authority on it--modern-day Judaism is apparently nothing like the Yahweh worship of the ancient Israelites. They don't even seem to have actually worshipped Yahweh until the destruction of the first temple made believers out of them. And even what that remnant practiced was a revival of what Moses taught and was only practiced in its entirety for around 400 or 500 years.

[quote/]

There termination of the sacrificial mode and the dispersion of the Jews are precisely what produced the survival of Jews. We are scattered and we can no longer be wiped out with a single blow. The dispersion of the Jews has boded well for the world at large. The influence of Jewish intelligence is now wide spread and occurs in many nations. All the better for the world.

G-D works in strange ways, yes?

ruveyn



AngelRho
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27 Oct 2010, 2:44 pm

ruveyn wrote:
AngelRho wrote:

On the other hand, the Temple was CENTRAL to Jewish teaching, cultural tradition, and worship. EVERYTHING centered around temple worship. The destruction basically meant the end of a religion and the beginning of rabbinical Judaism. From what I understand about contemporary Judaism--and you'll have to ask ruveyn if he'll even discuss it, it seems he's the resident authority on it--modern-day Judaism is apparently nothing like the Yahweh worship of the ancient Israelites. They don't even seem to have actually worshipped Yahweh until the destruction of the first temple made believers out of them. And even what that remnant practiced was a revival of what Moses taught and was only practiced in its entirety for around 400 or 500 years.



There termination of the sacrificial mode and the dispersion of the Jews are precisely what produced the survival of Jews. We are scattered and we can no longer be wiped out with a single blow. The dispersion of the Jews has boded well for the world at large. The influence of Jewish intelligence is now wide spread and occurs in many nations. All the better for the world.

G-D works in strange ways, yes?

ruveyn


He does. I believe the Old Testament teaches that YHWH works all things according to His will, regardless of whether He uses good or evil people to accomplish it. Was it not your prophet Jeremiah who urged the Judeans to go willingly and quietly into Babylon? Or am I thinking of someone else? At any rate, God used sinful nations to bring His own people back to Him, even if only a small remnant. Likewise, God used His own to punish those sinful pagans occupying Canaan.

But then again, according to your Bible, the inhabitants of Canaan knew quite well, i.e. it wasn't a secret, that the Israelites were coming to dispossess them as an act of God's vengeance for failing to live pure, moral, and upright lives. So we can reasonably assume even they knew God and knew better. In fact, it was Abraham to whom God made the covenant that his descendants would inherit the land and would be as numerous as the stars in the sky and as innumerable as the sand. Abraham, though, was NOT the father of Yahweh worship. I did a little reading. Turns out, in fact, it was Melchizedek who was the last named priest to whom Abraham appeared. So apparently Yahweh worship was already in place at that time and not something purely reserved for Abraham's descendants. Abraham received his blessing in part because he recognized Melchizedek as a priest of the True and Living God. And Melchizedek had nothing to do with Abraham's lineage. So Melchizedek's religion became Abraham's religion, which was passed on to his progeny. One need not think that Torah is for Jews alone. Leviticus 18:5 says "Keep My statutes and ordinances; a person will live if he does them. I am the Lord." A PERSON. Not a Jew, not a Gentile, but any person without regard to race or parentage. I believe it was Rabbi Meir who said "How do we know that a gentile who studies the Torah is as meritorious as the High Priest?" and "You may learn from this that a gentile who studies the Torah is as meritorious as a High Priest!" referring to the Leviticus passage I already quoted.

The Dispersion, as you so adequately put it, did do a lot of good for the rest of the world. But I don't personally think anything every WOULD have wiped out the Jews in Israel in a single blow.

Christianity, on the other hand, experienced the apparent loss of its leader prior to the resurrection. While Jesus later pulled them back together before the ascension, the same axiom applies: Strike the shepherd and the sheep will scatter. Scatter they did and became shepherds in their own right. Our "fathers" in the faith may not have been able to reach their own very often, but it's good to know that "a person will live if he does them" means us, too. If I ever learned Talmud, I'm afraid it would only be enough to be dangerous--not unlike an atheist's knowledge of the Bible. But I have no doubt that it could be beneficial in many ways.

My fascination with it in part stems from the time I spent living in a Jewish lawyer's attic and all the times I was welcomed into my Jewish composition professor's home. The latter was not particularly religious or nationalistic and had a strained relationship with his mother. Being as dense as I am, it's taken me a long time to figure out what that really means. But, indeed, I owe much of my aesthetic sensibilities to a Steinberg and a Woyzeck and my appreciation for frugal living to a Kossman.

Strange ways indeed!



DW_a_mom
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27 Oct 2010, 5:43 pm

I realize this discussion is pages old, but since opinions were solicited, I've decided to add mine.

Guitar_Girl wrote:
Hi
I am new to religion and church going and I have been pondering stuff in my mind. I am going to ask some things.
Some have specific answers, some may be your opinion. Opinions are welcomed, please don't be rude.
I have not been baptized or "saved". Does that mean if I die, I go to Hell?
Do my prayers "count" as much as saved people(I prayed for my troubled friend and shes not better? Why won't God help her? ) Did God give us Aspergers? Does He really know everything? Should I keep praying for my friend? Why do you need to be saved to go to Heaven, even if you don't go to church but your a really good person?


My opinions:

1) You are saved by your faith. That is enough. Completing the sacrament is still a beautiful thing, but more in the way marriage seals the deal, rather than makes the deal.

2) All prayers count, when they are offered sincerely.

3) God does not always answer our prayers in the way we want. It has nothing to do with the power of prayer. Sometimes there are reasons we aren't able to know.

4) Until we've solved exactly how or why AS exists, it is hard to say that God "gave" it to a specific person. Although ... I do think he created it for a reason. I think the world needs people with AS.

5) You pray because without prayer you cannot sustain your relationship with God.

6) We do not know how God decides who will be "saved." I believe that He may well "save" people who do not go to church. The Bible says that those who reject God will not be saved, but rejection is an affirmative act, and few people can be said to have gone that far in their lack of faith.


_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).


Guitar_Girl
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13 Nov 2010, 2:27 pm

Hey everyone!

I have been going to church for a few months and am no longer confused about anything. Thanks!



Nambo
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13 Nov 2010, 9:33 pm

Hell as you imagine it, doesnt exist.
God is not an evil torturer who would allow such a place to exist in his creation.
Hell is the grave, other name for it is Hades, it is not the lake of fire found in Revelation as Revelation asys "Death and hell where hurled into the lake of ifre"
Both Jonah and Jesus went to hell for 3 days.
Its where you await the resserection of both the good and bad from.

God didnt invent AS, or anything bad for that matter, when man left God, we where no longer maintained by him, just like a new car that never gets a service, it will start going wrong, "all creation is groaning" states the Bible, when Jesus comes back and rules mankind, he will then put all things right, he demonstarted his ability to do this when he cured the lame and the blind etc.

God doesnt answer all prayers like some genie in a bottle that carries out our wishes.
God doesnt run the world, yet, the Devil does, maybe God is therefore limited in what he can do at the moment.
Read the book of Job where you will see the issue raised as to wiether or not man will love God just for what he can get from him, like cupboard love amongst cats, will you still Love God even if you get nothing from him?, loving him for being your creator and the gift he gave in his son?
You will recieve the fruits of Gods gratitude if youprove yorself faithfull now.

As for baptism, 2nd Peter 3 I belive likens baptism to Noah getting on the ark and being saved.
It represents your death as a son of sinfull Adam and allowing your life to be bought back by the price paid by the death of Jesus, with him now becoming your father.

Of course many good people died before Jesus and baptism, what happens then?, Revelation says there will be a ressurection of good and bad, that people will be judged according to thier works.
Elsewhere in the Bible it implies that Christians do not get judged, that thier ownership due to being bought by faith in Christs blood means they have allready been washed clean, just like the animal sacrifices washed clean the sins of the Hebrews.
If you are not baptised then, maybe you have to revert to being judged by your actions as to wiether your name appears in the book of life, or you are destroyed forever in the second death, which is the lake of fire.



ruveyn
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13 Nov 2010, 9:46 pm

AngelRho wrote:

He does. I believe the Old Testament teaches that YHWH works all things according to His will, regardless of whether He uses good or evil people to accomplish it. Was it not your prophet Jeremiah who urged the Judeans to go willingly and quietly into Babylon? Or am I thinking of someone else? At any rate, God used sinful nations to bring His own people back to Him, even if only a small remnant. Likewise, God used His own to punish those sinful pagans occupying Canaan.



Jeremiah preached to the Jews uprooted in the dispersion and he urged them that when they went to the places appointed for them by The Most High, they should build houses and have children (in Hebrew these two things sound almost identical). And when they are established they should seek the peace of the city, for in that city they live and in that peace they will partake. In short, no matter where is Jew ends up he is to be a peaceful, productive and law abiding subject/citizen of the land in which he is.

And so it is, even today. Jews tend to be law abiding (although there are exceptions, like Abe Relis and Myer Lansky) and general are a constructive addition to whatever society they live, on balance. It was the work of two Jews, Salk and Sabin that removed the curse and dread of polio from the world, for example.

ruveyn



pgd
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14 Nov 2010, 11:15 am

Guitar_Girl wrote: Hi
I am new to religion and church going and I have been pondering stuff in my mind. I am going to ask some things.
Some have specific answers, some may be your opinion. Opinions are welcomed, please don't be rude.
I have not been baptized or "saved". Does that mean if I die, I go to Hell?
Do my prayers "count" as much as saved people(I prayed for my troubled friend and shes not better? Why won't God help her? ) Did God give us Aspergers? Does He really know everything? Should I keep praying for my friend? Why do you need to be saved to go to Heaven, even if you don't go to church but your a really good person?

---

Various Christian denominations answer the many questions you posed quite differently. My view today is that no one really knows the answer to all the questions you ask. A variety of answers are available from reading the Bible, Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan, and pro and anti Jack T. Chick evangelism tracts. Insights are also available from watching TV networks like TBN and Daystar.