14 Jan 2011, 2:42 pm
Jacoby wrote:
Orwell wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Same reason the left doesn't distance themselves from Alan Grayson, Keith Olbermann, Ed Shultz, etc.
They aren't really equivalent to Beck though. I mean, especially the popular notion that Olbermann is the Beck of the Left just seems ridiculous to me. I'm not at all a fan of Olbermann's, but there is a huge difference between him and Beck.
I don't think you've ever listened to Ed Schultz then. Don't worry, according to the ratings nobody else has either.
Schultz strikes me as a legitimately unstable person. He says he carries a gun for self defense tho(despite being against gun rights), go figure.Did he have a radio show once? I may have heard him on Air America in like 2005 or 2006. I don't remember enough details to comment, but if he's worse than Beck, or even comparable, that is quite bad.
14 Jan 2011, 2:45 pm
Orwell wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Orwell wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Same reason the left doesn't distance themselves from Alan Grayson, Keith Olbermann, Ed Shultz, etc.
They aren't really equivalent to Beck though. I mean, especially the popular notion that Olbermann is the Beck of the Left just seems ridiculous to me. I'm not at all a fan of Olbermann's, but there is a huge difference between him and Beck.
I don't think you've ever listened to Ed Schultz then. Don't worry, according to the ratings nobody else has either.
Schultz strikes me as a legitimately unstable person. He says he carries a gun for self defense tho(despite being against gun rights), go figure.Did he have a radio show once? I may have heard him on Air America in like 2005 or 2006. I don't remember enough details to comment, but if he's worse than Beck, or even comparable, that is quite bad.
Didn't Air America go broke or something?
Anyways, if it wasn't for Beck and Limbaugh I wouldn't have heard about the pep rally being planned complete with T-Shirts.
http://nation.foxnews.com/tucson-memori ... nt-rallies
Care to explain Orwell, cause Beck is telling the truth on this.
14 Jan 2011, 3:30 pm
14 Jan 2011, 4:39 pm
14 Jan 2011, 4:51 pm
14 Jan 2011, 5:22 pm
AceOfSpades wrote:
marshall wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
marshall wrote:
No. What is scary is that there are millions of paranoid delusional people who think like you. You lack perspective. You can't even see how the American far-right is perceived by virtually everyone else in the free-world as extremist and bordering on delusional. Yet you can't see it. You can't see the forest for the trees. You want to label as "hate" the reaction of sane people to the blatant insanity of people like Beck.
It doesn't matter that they think we are insane. If we travel outside the US, then we need to be more discreet, but what the outside world thinks of what Americans do inside America is none of their damn business. If other countries want to conform to each other like a bunch of middle school kids with no sense of identity, then that is their problem. Most liberal countries have adopted social policies that are likely to cause them to rot from the inside out, so yeah, there is a lot to be vocal about!
No sense of identity? That statement is really telling. I've noticed that the American right, in particular the Tea Party movement, is more about a cheap appeal to a certain identity than it is about any kind of substantive philosophy. I don't get why people are so shallow as to base their personal identity on a political affiliation.
Also, social policies do not cause countries to rot. Anti-intellectualism causes countries to rot. Countries rot from the inside out when their citizenry constantly fear of change and pine for the past.
Quote:
marshall wrote:
The only eqivalence I see is one of tone. Both Beck and Olbermann are in-you-face personalities. In terms of content there's no comparison at all.
Their difference is that conservative commentators are blunt in their speech and liberal commentators fill their statements with an extra large helping of BS (aka political correctness).
Actually liberals can be just as blunt as conservatives. I'd say Alan Grayson was pretty damn blunt, and the right hated him for it. The difference is content.
I don't get it. You claim without any evidence that government, in particular liberal government policies, are responsible for garbage cultural values. How can you back yourself up?
Quote:
And f**k virtually everyone else in the free world. I think it's contradictory that you talk about how bad conformity is, yet here you are saying "Since virtually everyone else in the free world hates the right wingers in the states, then they must be right since it's virtually everyone". Yes, I know you said "far-right wingers", but right wingers with more balanced views find em ridiculous as well, so it's obviously an attack on the whole right wing side of the spectrum for you to say virtually everyone else in the free world.
The people in the rest of the world don't see any reasonable debate coming from the right. They see people like Inuyasha. They see personalities on Fox News and right-wing talk radio. They see a bunch of throwbacks appealing to fear and belligerent nationalism. This isn't the fault of the "left wing media" missrepresenting conservatives. The conservative movement itself is responsible for it's own bad image. And your respone of telling the rest of the world to "f**k off" just illistrates the problem.
Quote:
I can't stand when every time a shooting happens, some European official has to talk about how uncivilized the states is cuz of their gun laws. A lot of the violence that happens is influenced by socioeconomic factors as well as subcultural and has nothing to do with legal access to guns (other than the crook knowing that their victims are less likely to have guns which makes em easier targets to prey on).
Yeah I'd really love to live in the UK where they ban outsiders from entering the country just because they disagree with em. Oh yeah, and if you think restraining orders are bad, look up ASBO which is some BS police state policy. You should also look up how that policy has been abused. Here it is straight from wikipedia as well as their sources:
[9] http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 80we20.htm
[40] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... dults.html
[41] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 021185.stm
Not to mention they think anti-stab knives makes em safe from stabbings and they wanna ban porn and have the government take over the internet. They wanna talk sh** about the 2nd amendment? Better get an equivalent of the 1st amendment before you talk about how uncivilized and oppressive the states is
Yeah I'd really love to live in the UK where they ban outsiders from entering the country just because they disagree with em. Oh yeah, and if you think restraining orders are bad, look up ASBO which is some BS police state policy. You should also look up how that policy has been abused. Here it is straight from wikipedia as well as their sources:
Quote:
* Two teenage boys from east Manchester forbidden to wear one golf glove, as it was a symbol of membership of a particular gang.[9]
* A 13-year-old forbidden to use the word "grass" as a term of abuse in order to threaten people.[9]
* A 15-year-old forbidden to play football in his street.[9]
* An 18-year-old male was banned from congregating with more than three youths, and subsequently arrested when he entered a very popular youth club. The subject scheduled for that day in the club was how to deal with anti-social behaviour.[9]
* The first farmer to be given an ASBO was instructed to keep his geese and pigs from damaging his neighbour's property.[9]
* The oldest recipient of an ASBO, an 87-year-old man who was sarcastic to his neighbours.[9]
* The youngest person to be threatened with an ASBO, a two-year-old boy accused of kicking a football at windows over a fence 7 feet (2 m) high and verbally abusing residents when asked to stop. This, however, turned out to be a police error.[40]
* A woman was forbidden to make excessive noise during sex anywhere in England.[41]
* A 13-year-old forbidden to use the word "grass" as a term of abuse in order to threaten people.[9]
* A 15-year-old forbidden to play football in his street.[9]
* An 18-year-old male was banned from congregating with more than three youths, and subsequently arrested when he entered a very popular youth club. The subject scheduled for that day in the club was how to deal with anti-social behaviour.[9]
* The first farmer to be given an ASBO was instructed to keep his geese and pigs from damaging his neighbour's property.[9]
* The oldest recipient of an ASBO, an 87-year-old man who was sarcastic to his neighbours.[9]
* The youngest person to be threatened with an ASBO, a two-year-old boy accused of kicking a football at windows over a fence 7 feet (2 m) high and verbally abusing residents when asked to stop. This, however, turned out to be a police error.[40]
* A woman was forbidden to make excessive noise during sex anywhere in England.[41]
[9] http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 80we20.htm
[40] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... dults.html
[41] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 021185.stm
Not to mention they think anti-stab knives makes em safe from stabbings and they wanna ban porn and have the government take over the internet. They wanna talk sh** about the 2nd amendment? Better get an equivalent of the 1st amendment before you talk about how uncivilized and oppressive the states is
That's not even relevent. Few liberals are pushing for laws like that in the US.
14 Jan 2011, 5:41 pm
14 Jan 2011, 7:14 pm
Macbeth wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
marshall wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
marshall wrote:
No. What is scary is that there are millions of paranoid delusional people who think like you. You lack perspective. You can't even see how the American far-right is perceived by virtually everyone else in the free-world as extremist and bordering on delusional. Yet you can't see it. You can't see the forest for the trees. You want to label as "hate" the reaction of sane people to the blatant insanity of people like Beck.
It doesn't matter that they think we are insane. If we travel outside the US, then we need to be more discreet, but what the outside world thinks of what Americans do inside America is none of their damn business. If other countries want to conform to each other like a bunch of middle school kids with no sense of identity, then that is their problem. Most liberal countries have adopted social policies that are likely to cause them to rot from the inside out, so yeah, there is a lot to be vocal about!
No sense of identity? That statement is really telling. I've noticed that the American right, in particular the Tea Party movement, is more about a cheap appeal to a certain identity than it is about any kind of substantive philosophy. I don't get why people are so shallow as to base their personal identity on a political affiliation.
Also, social policies do not cause countries to rot. Anti-intellectualism causes countries to rot. Countries rot from the inside out when their citizenry constantly fear of change and pine for the past.
Quote:
marshall wrote:
The only eqivalence I see is one of tone. Both Beck and Olbermann are in-you-face personalities. In terms of content there's no comparison at all.
Their difference is that conservative commentators are blunt in their speech and liberal commentators fill their statements with an extra large helping of BS (aka political correctness).
Actually liberals can be just as blunt as conservatives. I'd say Alan Grayson was pretty damn blunt, and the right hated him for it. The difference is content.
And f**k virtually everyone else in the free world. I think it's contradictory that you talk about how bad conformity is, yet here you are saying "Since virtually everyone else in the free world hates the right wingers in the states, then they must be right since it's virtually everyone". Yes, I know you said "far-right wingers", but right wingers with more balanced views find em ridiculous as well, so it's obviously an attack on the whole right wing side of the spectrum for you to say virtually everyone else in the free world.
I can't stand when every time a shooting happens, some European official has to talk about how uncivilized the states is cuz of their gun laws. A lot of the violence that happens is influenced by socioeconomic factors as well as subcultural and has nothing to do with legal access to guns (other than the crook knowing that their victims are less likely to have guns which makes em easier targets to prey on).
Yeah I'd really love to live in the UK where they ban outsiders from entering the country just because they disagree with em. Oh yeah, and if you think restraining orders are bad, look up ASBO which is some BS police state policy. You should also look up how that policy has been abused. Here it is straight from wikipedia as well as their sources:
Quote:
* Two teenage boys from east Manchester forbidden to wear one golf glove, as it was a symbol of membership of a particular gang.[9]
* A 13-year-old forbidden to use the word "grass" as a term of abuse in order to threaten people.[9]
* A 15-year-old forbidden to play football in his street.[9]
* An 18-year-old male was banned from congregating with more than three youths, and subsequently arrested when he entered a very popular youth club. The subject scheduled for that day in the club was how to deal with anti-social behaviour.[9]
* The first farmer to be given an ASBO was instructed to keep his geese and pigs from damaging his neighbour's property.[9]
* The oldest recipient of an ASBO, an 87-year-old man who was sarcastic to his neighbours.[9]
* The youngest person to be threatened with an ASBO, a two-year-old boy accused of kicking a football at windows over a fence 7 feet (2 m) high and verbally abusing residents when asked to stop. This, however, turned out to be a police error.[40]
* A woman was forbidden to make excessive noise during sex anywhere in England.[41]
* A 13-year-old forbidden to use the word "grass" as a term of abuse in order to threaten people.[9]
* A 15-year-old forbidden to play football in his street.[9]
* An 18-year-old male was banned from congregating with more than three youths, and subsequently arrested when he entered a very popular youth club. The subject scheduled for that day in the club was how to deal with anti-social behaviour.[9]
* The first farmer to be given an ASBO was instructed to keep his geese and pigs from damaging his neighbour's property.[9]
* The oldest recipient of an ASBO, an 87-year-old man who was sarcastic to his neighbours.[9]
* The youngest person to be threatened with an ASBO, a two-year-old boy accused of kicking a football at windows over a fence 7 feet (2 m) high and verbally abusing residents when asked to stop. This, however, turned out to be a police error.[40]
* A woman was forbidden to make excessive noise during sex anywhere in England.[41]
[9] http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 80we20.htm
[40] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... dults.html
[41] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 021185.stm
Not to mention they think anti-stab knives makes em safe from stabbings and they wanna ban porn and have the government take over the internet. They wanna talk sh** about the 2nd amendment? Better get an equivalent of the 1st amendment before you talk about how uncivilized and oppressive the states is
Anti-stab VESTS. I have no idea what anti-stab KNIVES might be. Spoons perhaps? And they DO stop you being stabbed. That's what they are FOR. Your government subpoenas Social Networking site users WORLD-WIDE. How about that for "taking over the net"? And its a LOT harder to "ban outsiders" because of what they say than you seem to think it is. And whilst ASBOs are a failure, they are an attempt to control a plague of anti-social behaviour we suffer from at the hands of unruly children, which is a blight on most towns and cities. If they failed, its because dumb-asses used them indiscriminately for ridiculous things, rather than against real problem behaviour. What would you prefer? We shoot the little f****? Better get a better idea of what is going on here before you knock it
My government? I live in Canada. Just because I'm defending em from all this ridiculous crap they get for their gun laws from European officials trying to tell em how to live, doesn't mean I agree with everything they do. I definitely don't stand behind the Patriot Act or them serving subpoenas to wikileaks tweets. The Patriot Act is especially f*****g ridiculous and should have been ruled as unconstitutional since it's a direct violation of the 4th amendment.
The problem I have with ASBO's aren't its intentions, but the fact that it's the government being involved in social engineering. It's way too easy for dumbasses to use em indiscriminately, which is why they shouldn't have implemented em in the first place. And nice straw man there, just cuz I'm a right winger you assume I believe the first resort should be guns drawn.
Maybe some punk ass kids would think twice about jumping some random person if that person is more likely to be armed, but anyways there's better solutions to the problem than some social engineering BS. Stronger police presence in certain areas? Charge juveniles as adults if they go around jumping people? Those are just vague answers since I dunno too much about Britain's social climate. I do know that social engineering is tyranny or a stepping stone to it at best and I oppose it not only by principle, but by countless examples in history where big government has never been a good thing.
@ marshall: It's the other way around; garbage cultural/subcultural values leads to the public accepting social engineering. Tyranny starts with the majority rather than the powerful minority. Hitler would've never became powerful without the already existing anti-Semitism at the time.
As strict as the gun laws are in Canada, the strong gun culture here prevents it from becoming as strict as Australia's gun laws. And yes, I still say people need to get off their high horse and stop acting like the states would be better off reduced to a European nanny state just cuz they think their s**t doesn't stink. If you were more like us, then x shooting would've never happened! I remember the Fort Hood tragedy having all kinds of scapegoating BS like that and I'm not surprised about the recent Tucson shooting.
John_Browning
Veteran
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,456
Location: The shooting range
14 Jan 2011, 9:12 pm
14 Jan 2011, 9:38 pm
14 Jan 2011, 10:20 pm
15 Jan 2011, 12:53 am
15 Jan 2011, 4:24 am
15 Jan 2011, 4:44 am
15 Jan 2011, 5:06 am
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
I don't support so-called "social engineering", so I guess that would make me a centrist in most countries other than the US.
For someone that claims they don't support social engineering you seem to parrot it being implimented an awful lot.
I don't consider health care social engineering. I consider it the only humane thing to do.
Quote:
marshall wrote:
However, according to Glenn Beck I am a Marxist and a Fascist for supporting things like progressive income taxation and universal government provided health insurance. To support an alternative to the current cruel and capricious society where people who have worked their entire lives can, through no fault of their own, become bankrupt, lose their job, thier house, etc.., and basically have their entire lives turned permanently upside down from medical expenses - this makes me a totalitarian oppressor in the mind of Glenn Beck and his Tea Party compadres.
Uh that is social engineering which you just claimed not to support. You know Bernie Goldberg has pointed out that many liberals are so bias they don't even realize they are left of center.
Whatever.
Quote:
marshall wrote:
I only call for basic fairness.
No, you call for stealing from people that produce and giving it to lazy bums.
So according to you working people who get sick through no fault of thier own and have to choose between paying medical expenses or paying to keep a roof over their head are lazy bums? I'm sorry but you just crossed a line you impertinent dolt!
Last I heard you were unemployed. Are mommy and daddy still supporting your ass? Maybe they should kick you out on the f*****g street. You are in need of learning from the school of hard knocks. Learn some respect or you get none.
Quote:
marshall wrote:
Yet in the eyes of the American right this makes me a Communist oppressor. Who is really the extremist here?
Uh, considering your statements I would say you are the extremist, maybe not to the degree of xenon13, but you sure as heck are not a centrist.
If I'm an extreme leftist then the vast majority of Canadians and Australians are extreme leftists. Otherwise find me all those "moderate" Canadians and Australians who want to repeal their government health care system in favor of a system more like the US system.
Quote:
marshall wrote:
The American right is drunk on its notion of "rugged individualism", crass materialism, and the "f**k you, I got mine" attitude. And they have the gall to simultaneously inject thier faux patriotism and Christian moral grandstanding into their politics.
See, you want big government nanny state to solve everything and you don't even seem to realize that you are the very thing the Tea Parties would accuse you of.
The same tired old straw man. Is that all you have to fall back on?
Quote:
mcg wrote:
Not really. I know lots of Christian tea partiers and as a group they are very charitable. They just don't advocate the state, which is prone to fraud and waste, taking people's money by force.
I would say you should just save your breath at this point you can present the truth all day to him and he'll still claim Tea Party members are a bunch of selfish, racist, bigots even though the facts do not support his world view.
Stop projecting. My guess is most Tea Partiers are simply afraid of change, afraid of government, etc. They have people like Glenn Beck telling them Obama is going to bring Armageddon. I would say most all Americans are selfish though, both liberal and conservative. American culture is very materialistic. That's part of the reason the housing bubble occurred.
Last edited by marshall on 15 Jan 2011, 5:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
15 Jan 2011, 5:12 am
| Similar Topics | |
|---|---|
|
Am I Too Blame?
in Bipolar, Tourettes, Schizophrenia, and other Psychological Conditions |
07 Jul 2026, 7:09 pm |
| Are there a lot of crazy people in this world? |
21 Jul 2026, 7:31 am |
| My game is just released on steam! And for free! |
18 Jul 2026, 7:59 am |
