How can a Christian also be a Republican?

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techstepgenr8tion
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18 Nov 2011, 4:38 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I don't think anyone is going to say people like Steve Jobs were lazy.
And I for one don't have a gripe against people with money. What really pisses me off, though, is when Fox, or the tea party, or any other conservative groups or individuals maintain that the rich are of more worth than those of us without money, because they might create jobs, or should have more political say, because they have more to lose than the rest of us. Or how tax cuts for the rich will "someday" ensure jobs in America, but having a social safety net preserved for the rest of us creates a "culture of dependency." Being belittled as a citizen and as a person is at the root of my hostility toward the moneyed right and their minions, not envy for what they have.

And by the way, my Bible class at church is studying the book of Amos, and a constant theme there is that God was threatening to destroy Israel, because of how the rich were living in the lap of luxury at the expense of the poor.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

That's not what Fox News, the Tea Party, etc. have said.

The wealthiest 1% as you call them pay over half the Federal Income tax. I'm going to be blunt, if you want all these programs you need to start paying your fair share, maybe you will change your mind when Government is wasting your money rather than just somebody else's.

I can never understand how conservatives can take the side of the rich as downtrodden and taken advantage of, even though they can afford to be taxed, whereas the rest of us are the bad guys for not paying "our fair share," even though it might be financially disastrous for us. And what, pray tell, is my fair share?

Probably 5 to 15% of your income and when rich people's taxes go up, yours go up accordingly.

I'm taking the "wealthy's" side in this because they are the ones that are being wronged here, not the poor. It's easy to spend other people's money Kraichgauer, but you would take a much different stance if it was your money being wasted.

Kraichgauer wrote:

And by the way, I've heard various tea party leaders, while televised, say that only those who own property should vote, as they have more invested in this society. While on Fox, your hero Glenn Beck said not everyone should vote. I think it was obvious who he was referring to.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

You know what, they might actually be onto something. You aren't paying taxes, so why should you get to vote?

Now what I think is you should actually be paying a percentage of your income, not having your right to vote taken away because you're not rich, the fact is they have a point.

You are advocating spending other people's money and forcing them to pay more and more so you can spend more and more of their money. I guarentee you that you wouldn't be supporting the Democrats tax and spend mentality if it was your taxes we were talking about raising too.

There is a difference between taxes and outright theft, and I'm going to argue that Democrats are trying to cross that line.

My right to vote is just that - a right. It's not incumbent on how much money I have, or on how much taxes I pay.
It just goes to show, the idea that conservatives represent ordinary Americans better than so-called out of touch liberals is just a load of sh**. If you people represented anyone's interests other than just the rich, you would never be suggesting something as thoroughly Un-American as depriving millions of citizens of the vote. The greatest threat to American liberty isn't socialism, but unbridled capitalism championed by the wealthy and their army of inbred tea bagger cretins.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Okay then, let's have a vote that Kraichgauer's money is taxed to build a pool in let's say Vigilan's yard.

You can feel free to take the money for the pool OUT OF THE SALES TAX I PAY EVERY TIME I PURCHASE A NON-FOOD ITEM FROM THE STORE!
So yes, Inuyasha, I do in fact pay a tax. Regardless, my right to cast a vote isn't dependent on how much Goddamn taxes I pay, or how much property I own.
To paraphrase Kieth Olbermann, "The weakest citizen of this country is of more worth than it's largest corporation." And if you can't get behind that, then every bit of your talk of supporting free government and justice has been proven to be just so much sh**.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

For the record, there is no National Sales Tax in the United States.

Anyways, I'm not talking about you choosing to participate in commerce anyways, so the sales tax argument is a red herring. I'm saying we should hike your taxes on the money you earn to pay for a pool for Vigilans, and since Vigilans has no yard... You now have to pay for a brand new house and a yard for Vigilans to put a pool in it.

I pay a state sales tax, so neener neener.
And if everyone got a yard and a pool from tax money, then that would be a lot more fair - as is the case now for the tax system. You conservatives are just bitching and moaning that your rich friends (masters) are taxed to a larger extent. But they pay more because of the size of their income, not because they're being single out as a discriminated against group.

And thus I repeat - neener neener!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I don't care about fair. Cause you're making money which is apparently wrong, you have to pay for all this stuff for Vigilans whom isn't making money, you don't like it too bad. Oh and Jacoby down the way doesn't have to pay for it, cause he's buddy buddy with some politicians.

You seem to forget that several times in the past, I have described myself and my wife as living in genteel poverty without a pot to piss in. Kind of the downside of living as artsy but impoverished bohemians. So I bet I can match Vigilans in poverty, if that is indeed a competition.
That means, both Vigilans and I should get a pool, and we're looking at you.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

You're not getting my money either, you're paying for Vigilan's pool whether you like it or not. Doesn't matter how much money you're making, if you refuse we'll just throw you in jail and sell off your assets.

What I find is hysterical is that you have no problems taking other people's money, and you see a problem with people taking your money.

Not following your conversation but are you guys sure you need 5+ layers of quotes? Its getting rough to look at.

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Inuyasha
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18 Nov 2011, 5:26 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:

I have no problem taking other peoples money.
I also have no problem with people taking mine.

I call it working and shopping.

)

When you buy something, you are paying for a good or service that you decided you wanted.

The difference between the situation I'm talking about and shopping is that in the case I'm presenting you are involuntarily being forced to pay for something that someone else is getting by Government.

People tend to be perfectly okay with spending other people's money, the hike the taxes on the rich crowd is a perfect example of it.

If people like Warren Buffett want to pay more, they can always donate money to the IRS, I don't care. However there are a lot of business owners, whom are struggling right now, and the last thing they need is a tax hike which would slam them with yet another expense.

Additionally, if people wonder why businesses are leaving the US, look at our corporate tax rate, which is the 2nd highest in the world.

Republicans are not saying that the rich should have special rights, despite what the Democrat scare tactics claim, the issue is overregulation and over taxation. Get it so our businesses can compete against foreign businesses, clean up the regulation mess, etc. and you would find there would be more jobs available.

JakobVirgil
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18 Nov 2011, 5:48 pm

I don't think the rich are going to have special rights.
I think they already do.

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Vigilans
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18 Nov 2011, 5:49 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Anyways, I'm not talking about you choosing to participate in commerce anyways, so the sales tax argument is a red herring. I'm saying we should hike your taxes on the money you earn to pay for a pool for Vigilans, and since Vigilans has no yard... You now have to pay for a brand new house and a yard for Vigilans to put a pool in it.

this keeps getting better and better. I was only expecting to be a homeowner in 5-6 years!

Kraichgauer wrote:

So I bet I can match Vigilans in poverty, if that is indeed a competition.

I don't live in poverty :lol:

I'm just a 23 year old on a break from school who works part time... Full time starting in a few days, actually. Got pretty much everything I need at this point, at least until I finish university. I'm certainly not wealthy, though there are a lot of people I know my age who are worse off.

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blauSamstag
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18 Nov 2011, 5:52 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Additionally, if people wonder why businesses are leaving the US, look at our corporate tax rate, which is the 2nd highest in the world.

I don't wonder - I know that they are traitors who care more about their profits than about the good of their nation.

Inuyasha
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18 Nov 2011, 5:52 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:

I don't think the rich are going to have special rights.
I think they already do.

Okay, and I'm seeing people thinking it's okay to accept free goodies from the Democrats whom are just looking to buy their votes. Last I checked that was what is known as bribery.

JakobVirgil
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18 Nov 2011, 6:00 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

I don't think the rich are going to have special rights.
I think they already do.

Okay, and I'm seeing people thinking it's okay to accept free goodies from the Democrats whom are just looking to buy their votes. Last I checked that was what is known as bribery.

I have never heard that definition of bribery.
You would have to be dumb to take that bribe democrats have only reduced the benefits for the poor. (in recent history)
but of course Money is Speech.

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Their hungry thirsty roots??

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Inuyasha
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18 Nov 2011, 6:04 pm

blauSamstag wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Additionally, if people wonder why businesses are leaving the US, look at our corporate tax rate, which is the 2nd highest in the world.

I don't wonder - I know that they are traitors who care more about their profits than about the good of their nation.

How is going broke because they can't compete with businesses in other countries going to help this nation?

JakobVirgil
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18 Nov 2011, 6:06 pm

I think we should reduce the corporate to 9%
and increase the maximum personal rate to 70%
that way people will keep their money in the business on not in the bank.

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Their hungry thirsty roots??

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Inuyasha
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18 Nov 2011, 6:17 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:

I think we should reduce the corporate to 9%
and increase the maximum personal rate to 70%
that way people will keep their money in the business on not in the bank.

If you want to go that route, you're simply discouraging investment in businesses that are based in the United States.

androbot2084
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18 Nov 2011, 7:32 pm

You can't be a Christian and wealthy at the same time.

Kraichgauer
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18 Nov 2011, 8:33 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Okay then, let's have a vote that Kraichgauer's money is taxed to build a pool in let's say Vigilan's yard.

Not following your conversation but are you guys sure you need 5+ layers of quotes? Its getting rough to look at.

Point taken. This isn't the first time when one of the spirited arguments between Inuyasha and I have been asked to cut down the trail of posts we've left in our wake.

As for Inuyasha@
If you're dependent on me to pay taxes, then it's going to take you forever to get anything done, because I've got jackshit. So in good order, someone will suggest that someone richer than me should get taxed. The point is, the rich can afford getting taxed, while the rest of us can't, and that's the reason why those demigods on Wall Street who you seem to look to for guidance pay most taxes.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

JakobVirgil
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18 Nov 2011, 8:47 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

I think we should reduce the corporate to 9%
and increase the maximum personal rate to 70%
that way people will keep their money in the business on not in the bank.

If you want to go that route, you're simply discouraging investment in businesses that are based in the United States.

Actually if you think it through it would do the opposite.
lower corporate rate attracts business.
Higher personal keeps the money in the company and in the states.
Individual investors tend to chase the easy dollar and the fad destabilizing markets and
blowing up bubbles.
We want to support low Beta rich who provide jobs and stability and discourage the high betas that do the opposite.

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?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

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pandabear
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19 Nov 2011, 8:14 am

Matthew 14 wrote:

When Jesus heard what had happened, he withdrew by boat privately to a solitary place. Hearing of this, the crowds followed him on foot from the towns. When Jesus landed and saw a large crowd, he had compassion on them and healed their sick. As evening approached, the disciples came to him and said, “This is a remote place, and it’s already getting late. Send the crowds away, so they can go to the villages and buy themselves some food.”

Jesus replied, “They do not need to go away. You give them something to eat.”

“We have here only five loaves of bread and two fish,” they answered.

“Bring them here to me,” he said. And he directed the people to sit down on the grass. Taking the five loaves and the two fish and looking up to heaven, he gave thanks and broke the loaves. Then he gave them to the disciples, and the disciples gave them to the people. They all ate and were satisfied, and the disciples picked up twelve basketfuls of broken pieces that were left over. The number of those who ate was about five thousand men, besides women and children.

If Jesus had been a Republican, he certainly wouldn't have been healing people for free. He only would have healed people who could pay him a big sum of money, or who had a health plan that specifically covered faith healing. He also wouldn't have given away free food. Instead, he would have taken up a collection, and used the money to buy himself a luxury chariot, some luxury horses, and some fashionable clothes.

He would also be going on and on about how unpatriotic and socialistic the Essenes and John the Baptist were, rather than criticizing the hypocrisy of the Pharisees.

ruveyn
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19 Nov 2011, 9:58 am

pandabear wrote:

He would also be going on and on about how unpatriotic and socialistic the Essenes and John the Baptist were, rather than criticizing the hypocrisy of the Pharisees.

A first class marketeer would give away the loaves and fish as a loss leader. Which is exactly what cousin Jesus did. He didn't sell salvation retail --- he sold it wholesale. Keep the price down, and go for superior volume.

Jesus may not have been a Republican, but he was a Capitalist. Read the parable of the Talents.

And Jesus was a sailor
When he walked upon the water
And he spent a long time watching
From his lonely wooden tower
And when he knew for certain
Only drowning men could see him
He said "All men will be sailors then
Until the sea shall free them"
But he himself was broken
Long before the sky would open
Forsaken, almost human
He sank beneath your wisdom like a stone
And you want to travel with him
And you want to travel blind
And you think maybe you'll trust him
For he's touched your perfect body with his mind.

Why is it that Jews like Leonard Cohen and even me comprehend what Jesus was better than you Christian Gentiles?

ruveyn

androbot2084
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19 Nov 2011, 11:57 am

A first class marketer sells goods on a sliding scale which is based on each individuals ability to pay.

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