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Vigilans
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01 Feb 2012, 6:30 pm

So Atheists = North Koreans ? Or North Korea is the ideal "Atheist state"? What a quaint little pet theory

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cw10
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01 Feb 2012, 6:31 pm

CrazyCatLord wrote:

cw10 wrote:

CrazyCatLord wrote:

cw10 wrote:

You're assuming there is a country run by Atheists that is a nice place to live. Find me one and I'll shut up.

How about Sweden?

It's still officially mostly Lutheran. And I know Lutherans. I lived in Minnesota for several years. They are religious, they just don't talk about it (Minnesota Nice).

Religious affiliation does not equal belief.

You don't live in Europe I suppose? Here in Germany, it usually works like this: People get baptized as infants, and that's often the last time they will ever see a church from the inside. On the paper, they are Christians. When somebody asks them for their religious affiliation, they'll say "Protestant" or "Catholic". But when asked if they believe in a god, most of them will shrug and say "I don't know really. Probably not".

We simply don't make a huge fuzz about religion and most official Christians never bother to think about it. It's simply part of their tradition. That doesn't mean that they believe in gods and angels and talking snakes.

You'll never learn how to drive if you never get into a vehicle.

abacacus
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01 Feb 2012, 6:31 pm

cw10 wrote:

"Sweden has the second highest total tax revenue behind Denmark, as a share of the country's income. As of 2010, total tax revenue was 45.8% of GDP, down from 48.3% in 2006.[8]"

Yeah high taxes. Sure great place to live. Work half of the year for the state. Sounds like f'n paradise.

We need a head-desk smiley. Acutally, I think I have one here somewhere...

Do you know what those taxes pay for? Such things as education and health care...

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cw10
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01 Feb 2012, 6:35 pm

Oodain wrote:

cw10 wrote:

we rank higher on freedom indexes and we dont have to pay for education or healthcare,
there is help for those that need it and your taxes are way off anyway, i pay around 36% in personal tax and no corporate tax for my own company (because of the bracket it falls into)
you also have what amounts to around 10k tax exempt dollars in tax deductions imply for being a citizen, that way students and the worst off wont have to pay tax for the first half of any one year, at least.

arguments from ignorance, they are just that.

If it's 46% taxes, it's 46% taxes. Someone is paying them, your boss for example. If the state absorbs the money, the citizens don't. And I don't want to wait 6 months to see the doctor.

arguments from ignorance, they are just that.

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01 Feb 2012, 6:37 pm

cw10 wrote:

Oodain wrote:

cw10 wrote:

I live in a country with socialised health care.

The last time I need to see a doctor, I was in and out in 3 hours after getting x-rayed, having blood work done, and a brief chat with a doctor who happened to know a fair bit about my issue (my hand locked up in a fairly painful way).

Out of pocket cost=2 dollars (parking fee).

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CrazyCatLord
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01 Feb 2012, 6:37 pm

cw10 wrote:

They also have universal health care, a top notch public infrastructure and public transportation system, a great public school education, 25 days of paid vacation time per year, and unions that negotiate wages that are high enough to comfortably live on despite the high taxation. But most importantly, everyone pays their fair share according to their income, including the top 1% earners.

Whereas in the USA, the rich get richer and the poor barely make enough to live on. Many people can't afford health care, the public transportation system is atrocious, public schools are a joke and decent education costs an arm and a leg, most workers are not unionized, and wages have not kept up with inflation since the 1990s. I'd rather pay high taxes, tyvm.

Last edited by CrazyCatLord on 01 Feb 2012, 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cw10
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01 Feb 2012, 6:38 pm

abacacus wrote:

cw10 wrote:

We need a head-desk smiley. Acutally, I think I have one here somewhere...

Do you know what those taxes pay for? Such things as education and health care...

Health care should never be state run.

Education can be essentially free on the most part.

What school have you ever gone to that was any good that YOU personally didn't pay for? I'm sure Oxford would be awesome run on state welfare and everyone would just dying to get in.

Vigilans
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01 Feb 2012, 6:39 pm

abacacus wrote:

cw10 wrote:

Oodain wrote:

cw10 wrote:

Likewise. cw10 buys the propaganda about socialized medicine. I have *never* had to wait 6 months for anything and the care I have received has been exemplary

abacacus
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01 Feb 2012, 6:41 pm

cw10 wrote:

abacacus wrote:

cw10 wrote:

We need a head-desk smiley. Acutally, I think I have one here somewhere...

Do you know what those taxes pay for? Such things as education and health care...

If it hadn't of been for my high school (public) I would not have been diagnosed with Aspergers.

I'd also likely be dead by now (suicide. The school nurse put me in contact with a psychiatrist who ended up helping me a lot.... who happened to work for the school board, publicly funded), so I'd say the public school system did me a fair bit of good...

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cw10
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01 Feb 2012, 6:46 pm

abacacus wrote:

Aspergers was recognized sometime in the 70's. I was in high school in the 80's and early 90's. They never found it in me. I think 25 years in public records is enough time to recognize an issue. Yeah it is, but not for government.

cw10
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01 Feb 2012, 6:47 pm

cw10 wrote:

abacacus wrote:

Sorry in the 40's. Which makes my point even more clear even if I am a absent minded professor.

CrazyCatLord
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01 Feb 2012, 6:49 pm

Regarding the number of atheists in Sweden: Wikipedia cites another EU-wide survey conducted by the European commission, according to which only 23% of Swedes believe in a god:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism

http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/arch ... ort_en.pdf

That isn't very different from the other statistic. Church affiliation only means that one was baptized as a [insert denomination here] as an infant, without having a say in the matter. It does not equal theistic belief. The fact remains that the vast majority of Swedes are atheists and agnostics, and so is the majority of the Swedish government.

abacacus
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01 Feb 2012, 6:52 pm

cw10 wrote:

abacacus wrote:

And some people have gone undiagnosed in to their fifties... what's your point?

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CrazyCatLord
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01 Feb 2012, 6:55 pm

Vigilans wrote:

abacacus wrote:

Likewise. cw10 buys the propaganda about socialized medicine. I have *never* had to wait 6 months for anything and the care I have received has been exemplary

Same here. The German health system has its flaws, especially the psychiatric part. But I can get an appointment with any specialist within a week or two and the medical care in regular, non-psychiatric hospitals is top notch.

Vigilans
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01 Feb 2012, 6:55 pm

cw10 wrote:

abacacus wrote:

Sorry in the 40's. Which makes my point even more clear even if I am a absent minded professor.

AS only became recognized by the WHO in the early 90s

cw10
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01 Feb 2012, 6:59 pm

Vigilans wrote:

cw10 wrote:

abacacus wrote:

Sorry in the 40's. Which makes my point even more clear even if I am a absent minded professor.

AS only became recognized by the WHO in the early 90s

50 years seems like a long time don't you agree?

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