Prison labour taking private sector jobs
xenon13 wrote:
It was peaceful until 1 October 1990 when the Ugandan military decided to invade Rwanda... that was not Rwanda's fault. The Rwandan army was actually quite unprepared to deal with the battle-hardened Bush War veterans many of whom were US trained that had crossed into its territory. It needed France and Zaire to help them out at first! The Hutu-run Rwanda was very stable and peaceful, and this was a huge contrast to neighbouring Burundi which was Tutsi-run despite having the same Hutu-Tutsi ratio... Burundi was a neverending series of massacres, most notably the 1972 genocide carried out under Michel Micombero against the Hutu population.
Rwanda's problem was that it was too peaceful, it was so peaceful that it was unable to adequately defend itself from forces based in war-torn territories such as Uganda. Its armies were inexperienced and soft when compared with the battle-hardened forces that invaded from Uganda.
Rwanda's problem was that it was too peaceful, it was so peaceful that it was unable to adequately defend itself from forces based in war-torn territories such as Uganda. Its armies were inexperienced and soft when compared with the battle-hardened forces that invaded from Uganda.
You still haven't addressed the "Peaceful Rwanda"/"Biggest genocide since WWII" problem.
GGPViper wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
It was peaceful until 1 October 1990 when the Ugandan military decided to invade Rwanda... that was not Rwanda's fault. The Rwandan army was actually quite unprepared to deal with the battle-hardened Bush War veterans many of whom were US trained that had crossed into its territory. It needed France and Zaire to help them out at first! The Hutu-run Rwanda was very stable and peaceful, and this was a huge contrast to neighbouring Burundi which was Tutsi-run despite having the same Hutu-Tutsi ratio... Burundi was a neverending series of massacres, most notably the 1972 genocide carried out under Michel Micombero against the Hutu population.
Rwanda's problem was that it was too peaceful, it was so peaceful that it was unable to adequately defend itself from forces based in war-torn territories such as Uganda. Its armies were inexperienced and soft when compared with the battle-hardened forces that invaded from Uganda.
Rwanda's problem was that it was too peaceful, it was so peaceful that it was unable to adequately defend itself from forces based in war-torn territories such as Uganda. Its armies were inexperienced and soft when compared with the battle-hardened forces that invaded from Uganda.
You still haven't addressed the "Peaceful Rwanda"/"Biggest genocide since WWII" problem.
All right, you have this invasion by Uganda in 1990. They are trained by the US and have US and British backing. They want to roll back the 1959 revolution and turn Rwanda into another Burundi. The Rwandan army is not strong enough to decisively defeat the threat and the US and UK are demanding that President Habyarimana surrender to them. In February 1993 the invaders carry out an offensive where they destroy much of northern Rwanda and commit massive atrocities and force hundreds of thousands of people south. The US and UK then say that this is a reason for Habyarimana to surrender, in other words, to reward those atrocities. From day one they blamed Habyarimana for the problems of Rwanda and not Kagame...
In October 1993 in Burundi the Tutsi army murders the elected Hutu president and carries out even more massacres and hundreds of thousands of Hutus are driven north into Rwanda. So there's a huge number of displaced people from the south and from the north who were forced there by amred Tutsis and the major international powers are openly supporting it.
Is it any surprise that many Hutus became enraged? I mean if they couldn't stop it with arms, with diplomacy, with anything, how else to vent their anger at being put in this impossible position? They were told that they don't count, that they are being condemned to possible extermination.
Kagame has since proven that they were right. He had a couple of hundred thousand people killed outside Kisangani in March 1997 and the West decided, when he invaded the Congo again in 1998, to impute that massacre to the new target of Kagame's invasion, Laurent Kabilia! His own massacre was used to discredit his opponent and the Western powers went along with it, his own massacre used to justify his new invasion!
xenon13 wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
It was peaceful until 1 October 1990 when the Ugandan military decided to invade Rwanda... that was not Rwanda's fault. The Rwandan army was actually quite unprepared to deal with the battle-hardened Bush War veterans many of whom were US trained that had crossed into its territory. It needed France and Zaire to help them out at first! The Hutu-run Rwanda was very stable and peaceful, and this was a huge contrast to neighbouring Burundi which was Tutsi-run despite having the same Hutu-Tutsi ratio... Burundi was a neverending series of massacres, most notably the 1972 genocide carried out under Michel Micombero against the Hutu population.
Rwanda's problem was that it was too peaceful, it was so peaceful that it was unable to adequately defend itself from forces based in war-torn territories such as Uganda. Its armies were inexperienced and soft when compared with the battle-hardened forces that invaded from Uganda.
Rwanda's problem was that it was too peaceful, it was so peaceful that it was unable to adequately defend itself from forces based in war-torn territories such as Uganda. Its armies were inexperienced and soft when compared with the battle-hardened forces that invaded from Uganda.
You still haven't addressed the "Peaceful Rwanda"/"Biggest genocide since WWII" problem.
All right, you have this invasion by Uganda in 1990. They are trained by the US and have US and British backing. They want to roll back the 1959 revolution and turn Rwanda into another Burundi. The Rwandan army is not strong enough to decisively defeat the threat and the US and UK are demanding that President Habyarimana surrender to them. In February 1993 the invaders carry out an offensive where they destroy much of northern Rwanda and commit massive atrocities and force hundreds of thousands of people south. The US and UK then say that this is a reason for Habyarimana to surrender, in other words, to reward those atrocities. From day one they blamed Habyarimana for the problems of Rwanda and not Kagame...
In October 1993 in Burundi the Tutsi army murders the elected Hutu president and carries out even more massacres and hundreds of thousands of Hutus are driven north into Rwanda. So there's a huge number of displaced people from the south and from the north who were forced there by amred Tutsis and the major international powers are openly supporting it.
Is it any surprise that many Hutus became enraged? I mean if they couldn't stop it with arms, with diplomacy, with anything, how else to vent their anger at being put in this impossible position? They were told that they don't count, that they are being condemned to possible extermination.
Kagame has since proven that they were right. He had a couple of hundred thousand people killed outside Kisangani in March 1997 and the West decided, when he invaded the Congo again in 1998, to impute that massacre to the new target of Kagame's invasion, Laurent Kabilia! His own massacre was used to discredit his opponent and the Western powers went along with it, his own massacre used to justify his new invasion!
Umm, you *still* haven't addressed the 1994 Rwanda Genocide. Instead, you are conveniently talking about events before and after it.
GGPViper wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
It was peaceful until 1 October 1990 when the Ugandan military decided to invade Rwanda... that was not Rwanda's fault. The Rwandan army was actually quite unprepared to deal with the battle-hardened Bush War veterans many of whom were US trained that had crossed into its territory. It needed France and Zaire to help them out at first! The Hutu-run Rwanda was very stable and peaceful, and this was a huge contrast to neighbouring Burundi which was Tutsi-run despite having the same Hutu-Tutsi ratio... Burundi was a neverending series of massacres, most notably the 1972 genocide carried out under Michel Micombero against the Hutu population.
Rwanda's problem was that it was too peaceful, it was so peaceful that it was unable to adequately defend itself from forces based in war-torn territories such as Uganda. Its armies were inexperienced and soft when compared with the battle-hardened forces that invaded from Uganda.
Rwanda's problem was that it was too peaceful, it was so peaceful that it was unable to adequately defend itself from forces based in war-torn territories such as Uganda. Its armies were inexperienced and soft when compared with the battle-hardened forces that invaded from Uganda.
You still haven't addressed the "Peaceful Rwanda"/"Biggest genocide since WWII" problem.
All right, you have this invasion by Uganda in 1990. They are trained by the US and have US and British backing. They want to roll back the 1959 revolution and turn Rwanda into another Burundi. The Rwandan army is not strong enough to decisively defeat the threat and the US and UK are demanding that President Habyarimana surrender to them. In February 1993 the invaders carry out an offensive where they destroy much of northern Rwanda and commit massive atrocities and force hundreds of thousands of people south. The US and UK then say that this is a reason for Habyarimana to surrender, in other words, to reward those atrocities. From day one they blamed Habyarimana for the problems of Rwanda and not Kagame...
In October 1993 in Burundi the Tutsi army murders the elected Hutu president and carries out even more massacres and hundreds of thousands of Hutus are driven north into Rwanda. So there's a huge number of displaced people from the south and from the north who were forced there by amred Tutsis and the major international powers are openly supporting it.
Is it any surprise that many Hutus became enraged? I mean if they couldn't stop it with arms, with diplomacy, with anything, how else to vent their anger at being put in this impossible position? They were told that they don't count, that they are being condemned to possible extermination.
Kagame has since proven that they were right. He had a couple of hundred thousand people killed outside Kisangani in March 1997 and the West decided, when he invaded the Congo again in 1998, to impute that massacre to the new target of Kagame's invasion, Laurent Kabilia! His own massacre was used to discredit his opponent and the Western powers went along with it, his own massacre used to justify his new invasion!
Umm, you *still* haven't addressed the 1994 Rwanda Genocide. Instead, you are conveniently talking about events before and after it.
Ah, the context... can't have that. At any rate Kagame's atrocities dwarf those committed by extremist Hutus, people who would never have acted in this way if not for the events leading up to it, including the 1972 Michel Micombero genocide, the February 1993 rampage, the October 1993 massacres in Burundi (let us also not forget the 1988 massacres in Burundi) and that the leading Western powers openly supported this process.
Some argue of course that the 1959 revolution in Rwanda "justified" Kagame's actions, and to argue this point they lump the killings of the spring 1994 with the entire revolutionary project thus saying that as it was an integral part of the revolution, therefore the revolution was irredeemably evil by definition and therefore it was perfectly all right to turn a peaceful country into a hell with massive Western backing. Saying that it's evil for the Hutus, 85% of the population of both Rwanda and Burundi, to run these countries, that the Burundi model of the 15% Tutsis running things is the good option, even though Rwanda was peaceful and stable up until the 1990 invasion whilst Burundi was convulsed by never ending tribal warfare and massacres during that period is a very bizarre thing to say to say the least but that's the official Anglo-American policy.
By the way, the reason they chose Dallaire to run the UN mission was that he was an Anglo-American world general who could speak French as he's French Canadian. Frenchmen and Belgians could not be trusted to implement Anglo-American policies to support the Tutsi dictatorship to the hilt.
Had the world powers uniformly condemned the Ugandan invasion from the outset, offered unconditional backing to Habyarimana to defeat that invasion, cajoled Uganda into compliance as it was and is in the Western camp, the whole war could have ended easily and there would have been no genocidal activities at all. Instead they suggested from the outset that Habyarimana had to go, then demanded some "democratic transition" in Rwanda whilst Uganda was proudly under a "no party state" and that this transition demand was used to pressure Habyarimana and reward Kagame and the invaders. They made an attempt to put Kagame into power through the back door by trying to force the local opposition to Habyarimana to ally themselves to Kagame and they were most put out when Kagame was trounced at the elections.
China is going to be cutting back on the prison labour
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/08/world ... 30108&_r=0
whereas USA has no choice but to increase prison labour
