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Papa John's and Obamacare

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Will you boycott Papa Johns?
Sure! Their pizza sucks anyway... 72%  72%  [ 21 ]
NO! Pizza pushers don't deserve healthcare! 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
Oh look! SHEEP! (with extra cheese) 21%  21%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 29

Kraichgauer
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24 Nov 2012, 6:34 pm

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Raptor wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
That is what the clowns at Fox want everyone to believe.


In the eyes of the right you are promoting Fox.


Yes, because the right enjoys watching clowns at work.


No because if you, being a liberal, don't like it then it must be good.
:P


So, by your reasoning, as liberals would hate having the atmosphere ripped away from the earth, leaving us all to die in the cold, airless void of space, that makes it a good thing? :lol:

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You learn fast, Grasshopper....


The air.... The air... So cold...

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



auntblabby
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24 Nov 2012, 9:38 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
The religious right says that health care is not an entitlement.

and to hell with the religious right. :x IOW they may find a hell waiting for them as long as they are bound and determined to make life a hell for other people they happen to look down their noses at for whatever reason.



ruveyn
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24 Nov 2012, 9:45 pm

auntblabby wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
The religious right says that health care is not an entitlement.

and to hell with the religious right. :x IOW they may find a hell waiting for them as long as they are bound and determined to make life a hell for other people they happen to look down their noses at for whatever reason.


No one has an unconditional right to the labor of another person, with the exception of a helpless child. That child has the right to the care of its parents. After all they brought him into the world.

To say I have an unconditional right to medical care is to say that the medical practitioners are my slaves.

ruveyn



auntblabby
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24 Nov 2012, 9:54 pm

ruveyn wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
The religious right says that health care is not an entitlement.

and to hell with the religious right. :x IOW they may find a hell waiting for them as long as they are bound and determined to make life a hell for other people they happen to look down their noses at for whatever reason.


No one has an unconditional right to the labor of another person, with the exception of a helpless child. That child has the right to the care of its parents. After all they brought him into the world. To say I have an unconditional right to medical care is to say that the medical practitioners are my slaves.

whatever. :hmph: nobody said anything about unconditional- as citizens, most other western nations afford their citizens basic health care without financially ruining them, which is the pre-ACA status quo here in the land of the wageslave, home of the unfree.



marshall
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25 Nov 2012, 7:29 pm

Raptor wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
The religious right says that health care is not an entitlement.


It most certain is: The guns of the government guarantee that it is an entitlement which you will pay for whether you like it or not.

ruveyn


It'll eventually bankrupt us is what it'll do,


No more bankrupt than we already are. Maybe the ret*ds in our government shouldn't have made the decision to reward the complete De-industrialization and financialization of our economy via "free trade", tax breaks, and financial deregulation. In any case, if we're going bankrupt I see healthcare as a somewhat higher priority than corporate welfare and the bloated military industrial complex. I predict your right-wing hard-on will really go limp once we can no longer afford to start wars whenever we feel like it



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25 Nov 2012, 8:35 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Raptor wrote:
It'll eventually bankrupt us is what it'll do,


That it will.

ruveyn


:roll:

This rubbish, and so much other garbage directed at the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, has already been debunked loads of times.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2011/0 ... for/174748



Raptor
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25 Nov 2012, 10:48 pm

Marshall wrote:

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In any case, if we're going bankrupt I see healthcare as a somewhat higher priority than corporate welfare and the bloated military industrial complex.

Spending too much on one program doesn’t justify further spending on others.

Quote:
I predict your right-wing hard-on will really go limp once we can no longer afford to start wars whenever we feel like it.

We can always find money to “start” wars.


ArrantPariah wrote:
Quote:
This rubbish, and so much other garbage directed at the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, has already been debunked loads of times.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2011/0 ... for/174748.


Mediamatters.org? Yeah, I’m gonna believe them.
:roll:


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ArrantPariah
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26 Nov 2012, 6:29 pm

Raptor wrote:
Mediamatters.org? Yeah, I’m gonna believe them.
:hail: :wtg: :salut: :


Great!



ArrantPariah
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26 Nov 2012, 6:37 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
The religious right says that health care is not an entitlement.


Going to Heaven is their only entitlement



Raptor
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26 Nov 2012, 6:52 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
The religious right says that health care is not an entitlement.


Going to Heaven is their only entitlement


Heaven is not an entitlement but a reward.

And, no, healthcare is not an entitlement it's a service.


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Kraichgauer
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26 Nov 2012, 8:37 pm

Raptor wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
The religious right says that health care is not an entitlement.


Going to Heaven is their only entitlement


Heaven is not an entitlement but a reward.

And, no, healthcare is not an entitlement it's a service.


Not in my theology! Heaven is an undeserved, unearned gift - that is, grace.
And by my politics, healthcare is a right and an entitlement.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ArrantPariah
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26 Nov 2012, 9:55 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Not in my theology! Heaven is an undeserved, unearned gift - that is, grace.


In other words, an entitlement, which is neither deserved nor earned, and is not a reward.

Raptor: Go to Church, already! You're going to embarrass all of the other Conservatives.

Kraichgauer wrote:
And by my politics, healthcare is a right and an entitlement.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


:wtg:



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26 Nov 2012, 10:15 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Quote:
And by my politics, healthcare is a right and an entitlement.

When we start turning services into rights where do we draw the line?


ArrantPariah wrote:
Quote:
Raptor: Go to Church, already! You're going to embarrass all of the other Conservatives. .

So what?


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ruveyn
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26 Nov 2012, 10:23 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Not in my theology! Heaven is an undeserved, unearned gift - that is, grace.
And by my politics, healthcare is a right and an entitlement.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Imposed by force and coercion. If you have a RIGHT to medical service then some doctor as a DUTY to treat you whether he wishes to or not. That means he is your slave. Except for dependent children, no one has a right to any value possessed by another, unless there is a voluntary agreement to exchange. Parents are obliged by law to care for their children. Why? Because they brought the child into the world. And if they default, then either the child dies or the burden of his/her care is imposed on someone else.

The hungry have no RIGHT to be fed free of cost by anyone else. They have a right to seek work to pay for food. They have a right to beg for it. But they do not have a right to take it or have the government steal it on their behalf.

The only iron clad obligations we are are negative. We are not to use force, fraud, or threats against anyone else. The only excuse for using force is self defense against the aggressive acts of another person. Unless you are a dependent child, no one has the DUTY to feed you.

ruveyn



Kraichgauer
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27 Nov 2012, 12:44 am

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Not in my theology! Heaven is an undeserved, unearned gift - that is, grace.
And by my politics, healthcare is a right and an entitlement.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Imposed by force and coercion. If you have a RIGHT to medical service then some doctor as a DUTY to treat you whether he wishes to or not. That means he is your slave. Except for dependent children, no one has a right to any value possessed by another, unless there is a voluntary agreement to exchange. Parents are obliged by law to care for their children. Why? Because they brought the child into the world. And if they default, then either the child dies or the burden of his/her care is imposed on someone else.

The hungry have no RIGHT to be fed free of cost by anyone else. They have a right to seek work to pay for food. They have a right to beg for it. But they do not have a right to take it or have the government steal it on their behalf.

The only iron clad obligations we are are negative. We are not to use force, fraud, or threats against anyone else. The only excuse for using force is self defense against the aggressive acts of another person. Unless you are a dependent child, no one has the DUTY to feed you.

ruveyn


As I understand it, even without universal healthcare, a hospital must provide life saving efforts to any patient - even the indigent.
And while there might be a legal right to let people starve, there certainly isn't a moral one. I think your Hebrew ancestors - whose morality was the basis of Judaism and Christianity - would say that starving person must be fed.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Kraichgauer
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27 Nov 2012, 12:48 am

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Quote:
And by my politics, healthcare is a right and an entitlement.

When we start turning services into rights where do we draw the line?


ArrantPariah wrote:
Quote:
Raptor: Go to Church, already! You're going to embarrass all of the other Conservatives. .

So what?


As we're a long way from making all services rights, I couldn't say yet.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer