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look at what these famous non muslims say about muhammad

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Tequila
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23 Jan 2013, 8:16 pm

salad wrote:
OK i will admit i spam the cap locks to grab attention


ON INTERNET FORUMS AND BULLETIN BOARDS, USING THE CAPS LOCK MEANS THAT YOU ARE YELLING AT SOMEONE. NOT THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO GRAB ATTENTION, BUT THAT YOU ARE SCREAMING YOUR HEAD OFF AT THE TOP OF YOUR VOICE AT SOMEONE!

Ahem.

Happy to be of help. ;)



Misslizard
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23 Jan 2013, 8:32 pm

I don't get out of shape when they burn the American flag,it's not alive.
Better flags than people.


_________________
I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi


salad
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23 Jan 2013, 8:34 pm

Tequila wrote:
salad wrote:
OK i will admit i spam the cap locks to grab attention


ON INTERNET FORUMS AND BULLETIN BOARDS, USING THE CAPS LOCK MEANS THAT YOU ARE YELLING AT SOMEONE. NOT THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO GRAB ATTENTION, BUT THAT YOU ARE SCREAMING YOUR HEAD OFF AT THE TOP OF YOUR VOICE AT SOMEONE!

Ahem.

Happy to be of help. ;)


sorry can you repeat that, i probably didn't hear you clearly with all that yelling



Tequila
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23 Jan 2013, 8:36 pm

Misslizard wrote:
I don't get out of shape when they burn the American flag,it's not alive.
Better flags than people.


Depending on who is burning it, I'd take it as an immense compliment. But that's just me.



Tequila
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23 Jan 2013, 8:50 pm

salad: You're a bit slow on the uptake (don't worry about it, it happens to the best of us) so I'll try to explain as nice as I can.

We're not on about what the general practice was in 7th century Mecca or whatever. What we're trying to get at is that Islam - today, right this minute - legitimises child rape (unless you seriously believe that girls of nine really have much of a voice against a big, strong, middle-aged man - in which case I'm sure you'd be very welcome in the paedophile club). Islam hasn't (and probably can't) move with the times. Ask most Muslims in Britain today if they think adult men having sex with children is OK in today's society and they'd probably recoil from you in horror.

In other words: where do you live? Do you support Muslim men who want to marry prepubescent children and have sex with them when they reach the age of 9, or support those that do? What do you think would happen to me in modern Britain, America, Canada, or any other civilised country if I asked a parent if I could marry her six-year-old girl because I'm attracted to her? I'm a 24 year old adult male.

In other words: I bet you would never dream of doing such a thing yourself, today. If you're considering it, please let me know how it goes with Big Bubba and friends.



salad
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23 Jan 2013, 9:07 pm

Tequila wrote:
salad: You're a bit slow on the uptake (don't worry about it, it happens to the best of us) so I'll try to explain as nice as I can.

We're not on about what the general practice was in 7th century Mecca or whatever. What we're trying to get at is that Islam - today, right this minute - legitimises child rape (unless you seriously believe that girls of nine really have much of a voice against a big, strong, middle-aged man - in which case I'm sure you'd be very welcome in the paedophile club). Islam hasn't (and probably can't) move with the times. Ask most Muslims in Britain today if they think adult men having sex with children is OK in today's society and they'd probably recoil from you in horror.

In other words: where do you live? Do you support Muslim men who want to marry prepubescent children and have sex with them when they reach the age of 9, or support those that do? What do you think would happen to me in modern Britain, America, Canada, or any other civilised country if I asked a parent if I could marry her six-year-old girl because I'm attracted to her? I'm a 24 year old adult male.

In other words: I bet you would never dream of doing such a thing yourself, today. If you're considering it, please let me know how it goes with Big Bubba and friends.


No matter how much I stress this, it seems to take a while to be grasped. Having sex before puberty is definitely forbidden. That's why there's nothing wrong with the Prophet's marriage to Aisha, Aisha was mature and a woman, not a prepubescent girl. And we're talking about the Prophet, not crazy nutcases today, thus that's an illegitimate argument. It doesn't matter where we are or when, as long as a person is ABLE to be married (question, what do you define as the proper criteria of marriage) then you can get married. meaning if you're mature enough then age doesn't matter whatsoever.

BTW I live in America



Tequila
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23 Jan 2013, 9:10 pm

salad wrote:
No matter how much I stress this, it seems to take a while to be grasped. Having sex before puberty is definitely forbidden. That's why there's nothing wrong with the Prophet's marriage to Aisha, Aisha was mature and a woman, not a prepubescent girl. And we're talking about the Prophet, not crazy nutcases today, thus that's an illegitimate argument. It doesn't matter where we are or when, as long as a person is ABLE to be married (question, what do you define as the proper criteria of marriage) then you can get married. meaning if you're mature enough then age doesn't matter whatsoever.

BTW I live in America


You support sex with children in accordance with your religion. Thanks for that.

Have you thought about putting your beliefs into action or are you too cowardly / sensible to do that?



salad
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23 Jan 2013, 9:38 pm

Tequila wrote:
salad wrote:
No matter how much I stress this, it seems to take a while to be grasped. Having sex before puberty is definitely forbidden. That's why there's nothing wrong with the Prophet's marriage to Aisha, Aisha was mature and a woman, not a prepubescent girl. And we're talking about the Prophet, not crazy nutcases today, thus that's an illegitimate argument. It doesn't matter where we are or when, as long as a person is ABLE to be married (question, what do you define as the proper criteria of marriage) then you can get married. meaning if you're mature enough then age doesn't matter whatsoever.

BTW I live in America


You support sex with children in accordance with your religion. Thanks for that.

Have you thought about putting your beliefs into action or are you too cowardly / sensible to do that?


trolling are we? playing with my words even though the conclusion that you drew from my post contradicts my comment. A person who is fully mature isn't a child. I said marriage is only allowed when the person is mature and reached puberty. I asked you to tell me what criteria are necessary for marriage, to prove my point of marriage in Islam disregards age, it regards maturity.

Now that I think of it, you are acting rather oddly since my final argument. You suddenly changed the topic from Muhammad PBUH to people nowadays marrying children who haven't reached puberty, completely irrelevant to what Muhammad PBUH did.



Last edited by salad on 23 Jan 2013, 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tequila
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23 Jan 2013, 9:40 pm

No. The age of puberty is an awful lot younger than adulthood in the vast majority of Western countries. If you support sex with pubescent girls under the age of 18 (or 16, or whatever because you consider that they have "matured" physically, you support sex with children. Most people would consider that rape. UK law considers all sex with children under the age of 13 to be rape.

Muhammad married Aisha when she was 6. If I even attempted to marry a girl of 6, I'd be off to prison. If I had sex (rape) with a girl of nine or even tried to, my feet wouldn't touch the ground.

I'm very sorry, but Islam's (and your) stance on this matter is indefensible and it's shameful that you would attempt to defend this.



salad
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23 Jan 2013, 9:45 pm

Tequila wrote:
No. The age of puberty is an awful lot younger than adulthood in the vast majority of Western countries. If you support sex with pubescent girls under the age of 18 (or 16, or whatever), you support sex with children.

Muhammad married Aisha when she was 6. If I even attempted to marry a girl of 6, I'd be off to prison. If I had sex (rape) with a girl of nine or even tried to, my feet wouldn't touch the ground.

I'm very sorry, but Islam's (and your) stance on this matter is indefensible and it's shameful that you would attempt to defend this.


I never said i support sex with children. i said marriage isn't restricted by age, it's restricted by maturity. the people during the prophet's time were adults at that age. 13 year olds fought in the battle of badr. Usama ibn Zaid, a 17 year old, was the general who fought the Byzantine empire, the most powerful empire of the day. governors were 16 of the empire of the muslims. the maturity now and back then has dropped by a landslide. one simply does not compare back then to now.



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23 Jan 2013, 9:56 pm

Why would a so-called prophet want to marry a 6 year old anyway? It's not like he was even lacking in wives.

Why didn't he let another 6 year old guy marry her instead?



Tequila
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23 Jan 2013, 9:58 pm

MCalavera wrote:
Why would a so-called prophet want to marry a 6 year old anyway? It's not like he was even lacking in wives.

Why didn't he let another 6 year old guy marry her instead?


Didn't he fancy her or something like that?



MCalavera
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23 Jan 2013, 10:01 pm

Probably. I haven't done much research in this case to be frank.



salad
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23 Jan 2013, 10:07 pm

MCalavera wrote:
Probably. I haven't done much research in this case to be frank.


Here's your answer:

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.p ... e-to-Aisha

it wasn't for lust. it wasn't for physical desires. It was for something much greater, and that is the narration of 2,000 <hadiths narrated by her alone.



Tequila
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23 Jan 2013, 10:10 pm

A girl of six wrote all that?!

No wonder the Islamic holy texts are a mess.

Written by a six year old. Dearie me.

I could actually believe that. It's less insane than some of the other points associated with the religion.

Hang on, though - I thought best buddykins Mo was told it all?



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23 Jan 2013, 10:20 pm

salad wrote:
Tequila wrote:
No. The age of puberty is an awful lot younger than adulthood in the vast majority of Western countries. If you support sex with pubescent girls under the age of 18 (or 16, or whatever), you support sex with children.

Muhammad married Aisha when she was 6. If I even attempted to marry a girl of 6, I'd be off to prison. If I had sex (rape) with a girl of nine or even tried to, my feet wouldn't touch the ground.

I'm very sorry, but Islam's (and your) stance on this matter is indefensible and it's shameful that you would attempt to defend this.


I never said i support sex with children. i said marriage isn't restricted by age, it's restricted by maturity. the people during the prophet's time were adults at that age. 13 year olds fought in the battle of badr. Usama ibn Zaid, a 17 year old, was the general who fought the Byzantine empire, the most powerful empire of the day. governors were 16 of the empire of the muslims. the maturity now and back then has dropped by a landslide. one simply does not compare back then to now.


You have child soldiers today, it doesn't mean that they're mature enough to be soldiers, just that they were coerced into it by circumstance. Children being expected to do adult things does not make adults out of them.