02 Feb 2013, 4:13 pm
GGPViper wrote:
meems wrote:
Venger wrote:
LKL wrote:
I don't think that guys, in general, recognize just how much time and energy women, in general, put into protecting themselves from men.
This whole conversation is exemplified by the following:
This whole conversation is exemplified by the following:
Quote:
“Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.”
― Margaret Atwood
― Margaret Atwood
Except men that rape/kill women are usually sociopaths, and women aren't afraid of sociopaths most of the time at least initially, quite the opposite. It's how they're able to lure them in the first place. Sociopaths are experts at not appearing to be creepy at first, and they're the most likely ones to be sexual-predators by far.
I'm not going to say you're wrong, because I honestly don't know, but from personal experience none of the men I know who've sexually assaulted women or other men or children are far from experts at not appearing to be creepy. However, I realize this is anecdotal, and I was hoping you could show me some legit studies about sex crimes "usually" being committed by sociopaths, some percentages, if you could. I'm not just talking about rapes, but gropers, molesters, if you will. These are some of the things creeps do, they touch inappropriately, make threatening gestures, and regardless of whether or not they would rape someone, most women don't want some dude grabbing them on the bus.
Here are some tidbits from The Handbook of Psychopathy. (I'd link to the original articles, but pay-walls are everywhere
).- Between 12.1 and 40 percent of incarcerated rapists meek the diagnostic criteria for psychopathy
- 30 percent of male incarcerated psychopaths had committed an offensive of rape, buggery or indecent assault compared to 13 percent of generic male prisoners.
These are of course different samples (and much of the literature on psychopathy is based on the US), but the data nonetheless suggests that there is a very strong link between psychopathy and rape.
Oh, and psychopaths are *not* likely to come across as creepy, as they usually possess superior charm and social skills (in fact, being superficially charming is part of the diagnostic criteria for being a psychopath).
So between 60 and 87.9% of incarcerated rapists - *most* of them - do NOT fit the diagnostic criteria for psychopathy.
Psychopaths are *superficially* charming - that is, they come across as charming briefly, and/or if someone is not paying attention. I've met a few people who seemed normal at first, but who were clearly 'off' after a few minutes or an hour of conversation. It just depends on how smart the psychopath is and on how good they are at masking themself.
02 Feb 2013, 4:22 pm
02 Feb 2013, 4:29 pm
02 Feb 2013, 4:29 pm
02 Feb 2013, 4:44 pm
02 Feb 2013, 4:45 pm
LKL wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
Here are some tidbits from The Handbook of Psychopathy. (I'd link to the original articles, but pay-walls are everywhere ).
- Between 12.1 and 40 percent of incarcerated rapists meek the diagnostic criteria for psychopathy
- 30 percent of male incarcerated psychopaths had committed an offensive of rape, buggery or indecent assault compared to 13 percent of generic male prisoners.
These are of course different samples (and much of the literature on psychopathy is based on the US), but the data nonetheless suggests that there is a very strong link between psychopathy and rape.
Oh, and psychopaths are *not* likely to come across as creepy, as they usually possess superior charm and social skills (in fact, being superficially charming is part of the diagnostic criteria for being a psychopath).
).- Between 12.1 and 40 percent of incarcerated rapists meek the diagnostic criteria for psychopathy
- 30 percent of male incarcerated psychopaths had committed an offensive of rape, buggery or indecent assault compared to 13 percent of generic male prisoners.
These are of course different samples (and much of the literature on psychopathy is based on the US), but the data nonetheless suggests that there is a very strong link between psychopathy and rape.
Oh, and psychopaths are *not* likely to come across as creepy, as they usually possess superior charm and social skills (in fact, being superficially charming is part of the diagnostic criteria for being a psychopath).
So between 60 and 87.9% of incarcerated rapists - *most* of them - do NOT fit the diagnostic criteria for psychopathy.
When a certain subset of the human population - psychopaths - has a much higher prevalence in certain subset of criminals - rapists - by a factor of 12-40 compared to the general population... well... then it might be wise to pay more attention to this particular subset than the vague "creep" category...
LKL wrote:
Psychopaths are *superficially* charming - that is, they come across as charming briefly, and/or if someone is not paying attention. I've met a few people who seemed normal at first, but who were clearly 'off' after a few minutes or an hour of conversation.
This is an incorrect description of superficial charm in relation to psychopathy. "Superficial" does not mean that it is easy to call the person's bluff. It means that the charming characteristics and behaviour have no attachments to actual feelings within the psychopath. IMO, appearing as "off" after a few minutes or an hour of conversation probably indicates that the individual is *less* likely to be a psychopath.
LKL wrote:
It just depends on how smart the psychopath is and on how good they are at masking themself.
The current research suggests that psychopaths have similar or higher intelligence than the average populace. This is likely to be an underestimation, as it is based on incarcerated psychopaths (those who were stupid enough to got caught).
02 Feb 2013, 4:47 pm
DialAForAwesome
Veteran
Joined: 4 Oct 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,189
Location: That place with the thing
02 Feb 2013, 5:00 pm
02 Feb 2013, 5:06 pm
GGPViper wrote:
LKL wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
Here are some tidbits from The Handbook of Psychopathy. (I'd link to the original articles, but pay-walls are everywhere ).
- Between 12.1 and 40 percent of incarcerated rapists meek the diagnostic criteria for psychopathy
- 30 percent of male incarcerated psychopaths had committed an offensive of rape, buggery or indecent assault compared to 13 percent of generic male prisoners.
These are of course different samples (and much of the literature on psychopathy is based on the US), but the data nonetheless suggests that there is a very strong link between psychopathy and rape.
Oh, and psychopaths are *not* likely to come across as creepy, as they usually possess superior charm and social skills (in fact, being superficially charming is part of the diagnostic criteria for being a psychopath).
).- Between 12.1 and 40 percent of incarcerated rapists meek the diagnostic criteria for psychopathy
- 30 percent of male incarcerated psychopaths had committed an offensive of rape, buggery or indecent assault compared to 13 percent of generic male prisoners.
These are of course different samples (and much of the literature on psychopathy is based on the US), but the data nonetheless suggests that there is a very strong link between psychopathy and rape.
Oh, and psychopaths are *not* likely to come across as creepy, as they usually possess superior charm and social skills (in fact, being superficially charming is part of the diagnostic criteria for being a psychopath).
So between 60 and 87.9% of incarcerated rapists - *most* of them - do NOT fit the diagnostic criteria for psychopathy.
When a certain subset of the human population - psychopaths - has a much higher prevalence in certain subset of criminals - rapists - by a factor of 12-40 compared to the general population... well... then it might be wise to pay more attention to this particular subset than the vague "creep" category...
That's besides the point. Saying that psychopaths are more likely than the general population to fall into that group is not the same thing as saying that most people in that group are psychopaths.
02 Feb 2013, 5:19 pm
02 Feb 2013, 5:27 pm
Jono wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
LKL wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
Here are some tidbits from The Handbook of Psychopathy. (I'd link to the original articles, but pay-walls are everywhere ).
- Between 12.1 and 40 percent of incarcerated rapists meek the diagnostic criteria for psychopathy
- 30 percent of male incarcerated psychopaths had committed an offensive of rape, buggery or indecent assault compared to 13 percent of generic male prisoners.
These are of course different samples (and much of the literature on psychopathy is based on the US), but the data nonetheless suggests that there is a very strong link between psychopathy and rape.
Oh, and psychopaths are *not* likely to come across as creepy, as they usually possess superior charm and social skills (in fact, being superficially charming is part of the diagnostic criteria for being a psychopath).
).- Between 12.1 and 40 percent of incarcerated rapists meek the diagnostic criteria for psychopathy
- 30 percent of male incarcerated psychopaths had committed an offensive of rape, buggery or indecent assault compared to 13 percent of generic male prisoners.
These are of course different samples (and much of the literature on psychopathy is based on the US), but the data nonetheless suggests that there is a very strong link between psychopathy and rape.
Oh, and psychopaths are *not* likely to come across as creepy, as they usually possess superior charm and social skills (in fact, being superficially charming is part of the diagnostic criteria for being a psychopath).
So between 60 and 87.9% of incarcerated rapists - *most* of them - do NOT fit the diagnostic criteria for psychopathy.
When a certain subset of the human population - psychopaths - has a much higher prevalence in certain subset of criminals - rapists - by a factor of 12-40 compared to the general population... well... then it might be wise to pay more attention to this particular subset than the vague "creep" category...
That's besides the point. Saying that psychopaths are more likely than the general population to fall into that group is not the same thing as saying that most people in that group are psychopaths.
I never made that claim. I made the claim that 12.1 - 40 percent of incarcerated rapists are psychopaths. One needs 50+ percent to make the "most" claim.
However, it is not "beside the point". Learning to avoid psychopaths is likely to be an effective strategy at reducing the risk of sexual assault.
02 Feb 2013, 5:28 pm
Tequila wrote:
DialAForAwesome wrote:
Lexi, where are these magical, wonderful people that you know, because all I see around here is, one person calls someone a creep, and everyone in that person's network, as well as the "creep's" network takes it at face value and shuns the person. They don't have to do anything creepy. It could be like Tequila described, where somebody just didn't like the person's look, or their color or religion. And they'd STILL take the insult at face value. "Well if Susie says that guy's a creep, he must be a creep!"
Exactly. And I'm definitely not saying that some people don't wholeheartedly deserve that label. There are people who are quite sexually aggressive (under a thin veil of 'banter') and I could fully understand that such a term being given to them is justified. They make my skin crawl and I'm glad when I'm out of their company, because their 'jokes' aren't funny at all, they're just predatory.
But what about for those men for whom it isn't justified? What if a vicious woman labels a man 'creepy' because she doesn't like the look of him, or, worse, wants to make fun of him? How would you feel if a man did a similar shaming thing to a woman?
That's the problem with a lot of the female posters on this thread - they're partisan.
....and many of the male posters are equally partisan. not sure why you'd exempt them from that comment.
by the way, men do shame women like that all the time. i've been called a b***h for not wanting to talk to a man who was trying to chat me up. he was quite pushy. i guess i could have called him creepy before he had a chance to label me, but i don't roll like that.
02 Feb 2013, 5:42 pm
02 Feb 2013, 5:45 pm
02 Feb 2013, 5:47 pm
02 Feb 2013, 5:47 pm
