Margaret Thatcher has died

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xenon13
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10 Apr 2013, 11:46 pm

thomas81 wrote:

Britain's debt to GDP ratio when Atlee took over was about TWICE as large as that which supposedly triggered the "necessary swingeing cuts" by Cameron. Give Thatcher some credit; she got to live long enough to see a worse prime minister than she occupy Number Ten.

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11 Apr 2013, 1:40 am

xenon13 wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

Thatcher is not getting a state funeral though

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11 Apr 2013, 1:42 am

ruveyn wrote:

She save Great Britain. Great Britain was sliding into socialist muck.

stay in school kids!

Tequila
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11 Apr 2013, 4:38 am

puddingmouse wrote:

because of where I live, practically everyone of all ages is denouncing her

Not where I live, they aren't.

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11 Apr 2013, 6:46 am

Tequila wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

because of where I live, practically everyone of all ages is denouncing her

Not where I live, they aren't.

I disown thee, Lancastrian!

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trollcatman
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11 Apr 2013, 7:24 am

ruveyn wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

You don't have a clue. The former industrial towns of Northern Britain are now derelict ghost towns and shells of their former selves.

.

That is because they were set up to operate at a loss. Any economic unit that operates at a loss over the long haul is simply going to stop and die without anyone putting an end to them. Great Britain was an economic basket case before Thatcher came into power.

You think an economy can work on fond hopes and fervent wishes. Well, it just ain't so.. Look at the Rust Belt in the U.S. The government did not put those areas out of business. They went bankrupt and ceased to function. Losing economic units sicken and die without any help or hinderance from the government.

ruveyn

Yes, blaming this on Thatcher is ridiculous. The same thing happened in other European countries as well. If operating those coal mines were profitable, people would have started mining again. The same with other industries, car companies in those days had stiff competition from Japanese car manufacturers and later Koreans. Car manufacturers have been closing down all over Europe, not just the UK.
Of course it still sucks for the people who lost their job, but expecting the government to subsidize failing industries isn't reasonable.

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11 Apr 2013, 7:43 am

^ Were the mines definitely failing, though? AFAIK, we had some of the cleanest coal. Even if the price was higher, there was a quality product there.

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pawelk1986
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11 Apr 2013, 8:13 am

ruveyn wrote:

pawelk1986 wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Clement Atlee started Great Britain on its road to (socialist) ruin. He was part of the problem, not part of the solution.

If I recall Atlee and has labourites made the William Blake hymn Jerusalem their theme song. They sought to build Jerusalem on England's green and pleasant land. What they built actually, was economic disaster.

ruveyn

I see some stains on Margaret Thatcher, honor, she called Nelson Mandela "Grubby little terrorist"

Not as grubby as others. Mandela had his share of blood on his hands. Fortunately he was kept on ice, so he never got to be as bad as he could have been. Mandela was cast as the Suffering Servant and he was just the right man to put into motion some truth and reconciliation. Give the devil his due. He kept the turnaround in South Africa from becoming a race war and a blood bath. Contrast South Africa to Kenya. There was no Mau Mau in South Africa.

ruyveyn

Forgive me Ruveyn but you are wrong this time.

Nelson Mandela was good guy and he got Peace Noble Prize, if i was a black person from South Africa, i would certainly support him. I try to look at this from African perspective, and it was, unfortunately, so that blacks were treated like the Jews in the Third Reich, as second-class citizens, despite the fact that the majority in South Africa.
I do not know why people fighting for their rights are called terrorists, besides Nelson Mandela did not kill anybody.

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11 Apr 2013, 8:20 am

As the western world wallows in the stagnant depths of recession for the fifth year running let us consider who exactly is to blame.

The bankers? They were greedily selling mortgages in hopes of high bonuses to people who could ill afford it but were seduced by the credit culture that has been around since the 80's.

Now why did the bankers take these risks? Because they could. Because Thatcher and Regan removed regulation from the banking system and basically allowed banks to do what they like. At the same time they nurtured the property market and created more home owners, which of course meant more mortgages. Thatcher also stopped social housing projects to restrict supply in the housing market, which pushed up prices, which made mortgages more profitable for the greedy bankers that she created.

So if anyone is to blame for our economic mess it is Thatcher and Regan for setting it in motion 30 years ago.

I defy anyone to argue with what I have said.

ruveyn
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11 Apr 2013, 8:23 am

pawelk1986 wrote:

I do not know why people fighting for their rights are called terrorists, besides Nelson Mandela did not kill anybody.

How much bloodshed did he enable or encourage in exercising his role as a leader? No revolution, successful or unsuccessful have ever been bloodless.

In any case, when he got out of jail he managed to keep the turnaround in South Africa from degenerating into a blood bath. For that I give him full credit. Someone else might have opted for revenge and blood.

ruveyn

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11 Apr 2013, 8:38 am

ruveyn wrote:

pawelk1986 wrote:

I do not know why people fighting for their rights are called terrorists, besides Nelson Mandela did not kill anybody.

How much bloodshed did he enable or encourage in exercising his role as a leader?

In any case, when he got out of jail he managed to keep the turnaround in South Africa from degenerating into a blood bath. For that I give him full credit. Someone else might have opted for revenge and blood.

ruveyn

Yes it is true in Africa was full of bloodshed based ethnic hatred. Like Genocide in Uganda, only because Hutu hated Tutsi, because they was favored by Belgians in colonial times.
I watched Hotel Uganda great film.

PS Revolution is god even if is bloodshed for fight social unjust.

Utnapishtim
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11 Apr 2013, 8:50 am

puddingmouse wrote:

^ Were the mines definitely failing, though? AFAIK, we had some of the cleanest coal. Even if the price was higher, there was a quality product there.

Have you seen Ken Loach's The Spirit of '45? In that film when talking about the mining industry to was pointed out the when the mines were nationalised a lot of the old management and owners of the private mines had roles on the coal boards. I think it might of been one factor that played a role in selling off the mines.

Oh an aside I happen to meet one of the interviewees from the film yesterday, she came up from London to give a talk at a public meeting.

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11 Apr 2013, 8:51 am

Let's look at what Baronness Thatcher had to work with when she took office.

1. A prior regime that had treated double-digit inflation as acceptable. Posters above can complain all they want about her favoring the rich, but inflation generally strengthens the wealthiest, and destroys those without wealth.

2. Thanks to north sea oil, the pound was over-valued, which hastened the end of manufactured exports.

3. An economy where striking for months at a time was considered an acceptable and routine tactic. How can you run anything when your employees feel it is acceptable to walk off the job for months at a time, and commit violence against anyone else who wants to work? I know he's dispised on PPR, but look at the measures Murdoch needed to take just to protect his printing presses.

4. The legacy of a colonial empire that required defending, and the cost of keeping the USSR at bay.

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11 Apr 2013, 8:52 am

Robdemanc wrote:

You can have various views on opinion, on the one hand deregulation is bad on the other hand is good. In Poland, where there was socialism inevitably everything was controlled, because we had planned economy, after the political changes introduced free-market economy, many people were unable to adapt.

But deregulation has its good side, so the state has to dictate to me how to run my business.

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11 Apr 2013, 9:14 am

Utnapishtim wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

^ Were the mines definitely failing, though? AFAIK, we had some of the cleanest coal. Even if the price was higher, there was a quality product there.

Nah, haven't seen it. I quite like what Ken Loach I have seen, though.

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ChekaMan
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11 Apr 2013, 9:30 am

When I heard Thatcher had died I thought "Ding Dong, the witch is dead" and then I thought "Hey, she is somebody's mother. Poor them."

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