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US Government wants to take firearms away by force!

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Kraichgauer
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13 Jun 2013, 11:32 am

sonofghandi wrote:
This whole topic seems like a non-issue to me.

Even if laws were passed requiring all firearms to be registered, it be impracticle (and darn near impossible) for the government to run a program to seize all (or even a fraction) of the privately owned weapons.

The idea that the government is trying to take your weapons is political propaganda, just like the rumors that the NSA is using their massive data collection to make profiles of every person in the country to determine every possible minute crime they MAY have committed.

If there is an extreme viewpoint, it is usually based minimally on fact, and mostly on what other people you agree with on other issues say.


Thank you - that's been my position all along.

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13 Jun 2013, 8:39 pm

sonofghandi wrote:
This whole topic seems like a non-issue to me.

Even if laws were passed requiring all firearms to be registered, it be impracticle (and darn near impossible) for the government to run a program to seize all (or even a fraction) of the privately owned weapons.

What would the rationale for registration be in the first place?
Canada tried registering all guns, including the non-restricted ones, and it didn't pan out very well. I can't imagine it being even as effective in the US, with us being notoriously rowdier and more disobedient than our neighbors to the north.
Do you think all Aspies should be registered, too?

Quote:
The idea that the government is trying to take your weapons is political propaganda, just like the rumors that the NSA is using their massive data collection to make profiles of every person in the country to determine every possible minute crime they MAY have committed.

The government as an entity probably doesn't care one way or the other on the average day BUT some of the leftist/protectionist lawmakers do care. Each time we have something like Sandy Hook (which isn't very often, considering) they capitalize on it and beat the drum for more gun control. They have been known to get their way sometimes.


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sonofghandi
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14 Jun 2013, 6:31 am

Raptor wrote:
sonofghandi wrote:
This whole topic seems like a non-issue to me.

Even if laws were passed requiring all firearms to be registered, it be impracticle (and darn near impossible) for the government to run a program to seize all (or even a fraction) of the privately owned weapons.

What would the rationale for registration be in the first place?
Canada tried registering all guns, including the non-restricted ones, and it didn't pan out very well. I can't imagine it being even as effective in the US, with us being notoriously rowdier and more disobedient than our neighbors to the north.
Do you think all Aspies should be registered, too?

Quote:
The idea that the government is trying to take your weapons is political propaganda, just like the rumors that the NSA is using their massive data collection to make profiles of every person in the country to determine every possible minute crime they MAY have committed.

The government as an entity probably doesn't care one way or the other on the average day BUT some of the leftist/protectionist lawmakers do care. Each time we have something like Sandy Hook (which isn't very often, considering) they capitalize on it and beat the drum for more gun control. They have been known to get their way sometimes.


A call for registering guns was not my point. My point was:
The fact that even if there was a requirement to register guns enacted, and even if it was fully successful, it would still not be realistic to think that it would be remotely possible for the government to take them away.

The most recent call for gun control in the US that was put to a vote was a requirement for universal background checks when someone purchases a gun (and not a requirement to register guns), which was supported by the vast majority of the American citizens, but rejected by the senate.

I stand by my original statement that this topic of the government seizing everyone's weapons is a non-issue, even in a theoretical sense.


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14 Jun 2013, 11:02 am

sonofghandi wrote:
A call for registering guns was not my point.

Oh?
What about this? \/
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5434714.html
sonofghandi wrote:
I also feel that there SHOULD be a national gun registry. If you personally bought the weapon, maybe you should be personally responsible for what happens to it.

:roll: :roll:

sonofghandi wrote:
My point was:
The fact that even if there was a requirement to register guns enacted, and even if it was fully successful, it would still not be realistic to think that it would be remotely possible for the government to take them away.

It may not be realistic to think that there will be a coast to coast, door to door, gun roundup as a result of of registration BUT to use registration to target individuals or small groups is not at all unrealistic. Why give the government that private information or anything else personal to put into databases that are likely to be used against us sooner or later?

sonofghandi wrote:
The most recent call for gun control in the US that was put to a vote was a requirement for universal background checks when someone purchases a gun (and not a requirement to register guns), which was supported by the vast majority of the American citizens, but rejected by the senate.

Depends on whose poll you go by on what the citizens want.
Remember that we send our representatives tons of e-mail on these issues, too. My e-mails on this topic clearly state that I will not vote for any politicization that votes in favor of gun control, regardless of their party affiliation. I imagine most others state the same in so many words.


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14 Jun 2013, 1:20 pm

I do feel that there SHOULD be a national gun registry, but that has nothing to do with the point I have been trying to make in this post. As for the majority of Americans supporting background checks, I have seen no polls that suggest otherwise.


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15 Jun 2013, 12:57 pm

sonofghandi wrote:
I do feel that there SHOULD be a national gun registry, but that has nothing to do with the point I have been trying to make in this post. As for the majority of Americans supporting background checks, I have seen no polls that suggest otherwise.


Again, what would the rationale for registration be in the first place?
Canada tried registering all guns, including the non-restricted ones, and it didn't pan out very well. I can't imagine it being even as effective in the US, with us being notoriously rowdier and more disobedient than our neighbors to the north.
Since you're wanting to register things you think all Aspies should be registered, too? We can be dangerous, according to some, and we have minds of our own where guns do not.

BTW, background checks are not registration and I doubt the average American supports them regardless of whatever poll you're talking about.
A poll can be done to support anything depending on who's being polled and the honesty of the people conducting the poll.


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16 Jun 2013, 9:08 am

Raptor wrote:
sonofghandi wrote:
I do feel that there SHOULD be a national gun registry, but that has nothing to do with the point I have been trying to make in this post. As for the majority of Americans supporting background checks, I have seen no polls that suggest otherwise.


Again, what would the rationale for registration be in the first place?
Canada tried registering all guns, including the non-restricted ones, and it didn't pan out very well. I can't imagine it being even as effective in the US, with us being notoriously rowdier and more disobedient than our neighbors to the north.
Since you're wanting to register things you think all Aspies should be registered, too? We can be dangerous, according to some, and we have minds of our own where guns do not.

BTW, background checks are not registration and I doubt the average American supports them regardless of whatever poll you're talking about.
A poll can be done to support anything depending on who's being polled and the honesty of the people conducting the poll.


Seriously? you are comparing registering people to registering weapons?
A national gun registry is something I support based on my personal opinions, which I am entitled to have as much as you are. I won't argue about it further. My arguments were stated in a different thread (which you already know), and find it would be pointless for both of us to waste time typing the same things over again.

And again, the only point I was making in this thread is that it is technically impossible for the government to seize everyone's firearms even if there theoretically was a national gun registry.

I will not post in this thread again, as I have nothing further to say.


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16 Jun 2013, 9:33 am

Ah, you want to intrude upon poeple's privacy, create a legal and bureaucratic train wreck, and a new class of criminal to tie up the justice system just because it personally feels good to you.
:roll: :roll:


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16 Jun 2013, 4:20 pm

^

I think that's the rationale for most gun control, we've already established that none of them know what they're talking about, and very few of them can even make a coherent case without lapsing into "guns are BAD!! !" or "for the CHILDREN!! !" type hysteria.


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16 Jun 2013, 5:09 pm

Raptor wrote:
Ah, you want to intrude upon poeple's privacy, create a legal and bureaucratic train wreck, and a new class of criminal to tie up the justice system just because it personally feels good to you.
:roll: :roll:


Yes that is the goal of modern day liberal thinking make people that were once criminals into victims and law abiding citizens into criminals. I am in no way a consevative but i cant think of a more destructive set of goals than liberal thinking which seem to want to help people by making them criminals for wanting to own land farm and protect themselves while still being doing everything in there power to help and protect big business . Help the less fortunate and criminals by doing away with the very principals and laws this country was founded on that is the creed of the modern democratic liberal political party. Thank god libertarian principals and thought are the what dominates the internets political realm let the idiots watch TV and think they are modern trendy and in the know while the new generation embraces true freedom and free thought instead of bought and paid for actors polls and statistics.



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16 Jun 2013, 5:45 pm

It wouldn't work.


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16 Jun 2013, 8:56 pm

Dox47 wrote:
^

I think that's the rationale for most gun control, we've already established that none of them know what they're talking about, and very few of them can even make a coherent case without lapsing into "guns are BAD!! !" or "for the CHILDREN!! !" type hysteria.


This is a new gun hater, though. Every time we wear one out another one is sent to replace his/her fallen comrade.


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16 Jun 2013, 9:13 pm

redriverronin wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Ah, you want to intrude upon poeple's privacy, create a legal and bureaucratic train wreck, and a new class of criminal to tie up the justice system just because it personally feels good to you.
:roll: :roll:


Yes that is the goal of modern day liberal thinking make people that were once criminals into victims and law abiding citizens into criminals. I am in no way a consevative but i cant think of a more destructive set of goals than liberal thinking which seem to want to help people by making them criminals for wanting to own land farm and protect themselves while still being doing everything in there power to help and protect big business . Help the less fortunate and criminals by doing away with the very principals and laws this country was founded on that is the creed of the modern democratic liberal political party. Thank god libertarian principals and thought are the what dominates the internets political realm let the idiots watch TV and think they are modern trendy and in the know while the new generation embraces true freedom and free thought instead of bought and paid for actors polls and statistics.

Can you say, "straw man"?

...I knew you could.

Raptor wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
^

I think that's the rationale for most gun control, we've already established that none of them know what they're talking about, and very few of them can even make a coherent case without lapsing into "guns are BAD!! !" or "for the CHILDREN!! !" type hysteria.


This is a new gun hater, though. Every time we wear one out another one is sent to replace his/her fallen comrade.

Ooh, he said "comrade"! Implying {scary voice} communism.{/scary voice}. 'Cause the laws of physics make it impossible to attach, even by implication, the words 'communist,' or 'terrorist,' or 'traitor,' or 'fascist,' or 'Nazi,' to any person or group who doesn't fit the actual definition of such, right?



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16 Jun 2013, 9:16 pm

redriverronin wrote:
Yes that is the goal of modern day liberal thinking make people that were once criminals into victims and law abiding citizens into criminals..

That's pretty much a fact.


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16 Jun 2013, 9:17 pm

redriverronin wrote:
Yes that is the goal of modern day liberal thinking make people that were once criminals into victims and law abiding citizens into criminals..

That's pretty much a fact.


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17 Jun 2013, 7:59 am

Raptor wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
^

I think that's the rationale for most gun control, we've already established that none of them know what they're talking about, and very few of them can even make a coherent case without lapsing into "guns are BAD!! !" or "for the CHILDREN!! !" type hysteria.


This is a new gun hater, though. Every time we wear one out another one is sent to replace his/her fallen comrade.


I am not a gun hater by any means. I own several firearms. I hunt. I just don't feel that anyone should be allowed to buy a gun at any time for any reason, with no accountability or control. And while we are on the subject, an awful lot of people are crying "privacy" and "personal property rights" when it comes to guns. All the while defending the fact that the government is collecting all of your other data to such an extent that the one person who brought some of the details of the intrusion of privacy to light has been labelled a traitor and a spy. You want the privacy when it comes to your guns, but what if a national gun registry were called for by a conservative lobby in the name of national security and gathering intelligence on domestic terrorism? You've done nothing wrong so you have nothing to fear, right?

There is too much paradoxical thinking in the "conservative" side, but I suppose the same can be said for the "liberal" side, just in the opposite direction.

I consider myself neither conservative nor liberal. I am more of an anti-extremist. When you fall into the "us vs them" mentality, you tend to forget that there really is no "them," there is only "us."

"There is no justice. Just us."
-Terry Pratchett


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