Prophet Muhammad vs Jesus Christ

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Actually, some scholarly evidence suggests that it was the early Roman Empire with the help of the early Catholic Church that enforced a rule of mythological Soldier/Sun GOD Christianity FOR A TOOL IN the ability to subjugate and oppress the common folks PER illusory fears of eternal damnation and an alternative of potential punishment of death if one did not follow the early Roman Empire inspired Catholic rule of book.

IT appears from all evidence that currently exists that these are the folks who decided there IS a trinity and psychopathic leaning Constantine erected a gigantic Sun GOD of himself to ride on the coattails of the soldier Sun GOD that these early leaders, both in church and state, aligned IN creating the trinity that is the Father, 'Sun' (Jesus/Yeshua), and Holy spirit as a GOD with three separate yet unified parts.

If Christianity and Islam was not ENFORCED BY church AND STATE, WE WOULD NOT HAVE IT IN THE PERCENTAGE OF NUMBERS OF FOLKS IN THE WORLD that we have today, obviously.

It would just be another set of beliefs in how it all works together as is, whether that might be the TAO or science, it matters not, as humans naturally tend to dictate some kind of order on reality whether it is housed in the scientific method or vehicles and vessels of truth in myth.

There are many archetypal human types that fit well within the ideal of a trinity per the yin and yang of all that is and the ONE that IS that is, per what SOME folks ascribe as the anthropomorphic traits of the divine masculine and feminine as part of a whole of Mother Nature TRUE aka All that IS aka GOD, Allah, or a an almost limitless number of humanly designed abstract languaged concepts of human existential intelligence.

To not find a path on this journey of some kind, is both chaos and insanity as one.

Some paths are better, some are more clear, but the truth is out there if one keeps seeking the truth as one sees it for one's self, even IF that means that no one sees truth the same.

But wherever I see human suffering, I see metaphorical 'lies', and certainly the religions of ISLAM and Christianity in both historical and modern days are still social bonding positive ways of survival as well as DEADLY SUFFERING AND KILLING OF OTHERS WAYS.

THESE DEFINITELY ARE not paths that I CAN FOLLOW WHOLE HEARTEDLY, AS I KNOW LIFE NOW, but I can still adapt to them well enough, to not want to fall to the level of folks in these arenas of philosophy whether it is extreme Atheists, Christians, or Muslims who exclude people as sub-human for their different ways of belief.

Humans are innately evolved, overall, to share and cooperate socially together as a tribe for survival.

Complex Language and cultures throw A HUGE RIGHT-HANDED MONKEY WRENCH OF CONFUSION into the mix.

I may be very wordy in ways of written communication and even verbal communication in real life, but my internal philosophy AND the balance I feel inside, as well as health AND WELL BEING IS SEALED WITH A KISS

KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID.

I FLOW LIKE A RIVER TO THE OCEAN, IN BALANCED EBB AND FLOW INSIDE, NO MATTER WHAT THE TORNADO LOOKS LIKE ON THE OUTSIDE. :)

AND I SUPPOSE THAT IS THE WAY GOD DOES IT TOO.

AS ABOVE SO BELOW.

AFTER ALL, GENERALLY SPEAKING, EVEN SCIENCE SHOWS THAT'S HOW ALL IT ALL WORKS TOGETHER AS ONE, ANYWAY, INSIDE AND OUTSIDE AS ABOVE SO BELOW.

SAME BASIC CONCEPT that the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas has been speaking to as truth for centuries before science got this far with a more refined scientific measure of the observable Universe in repeatable and controlled experiment.

GOD is a living force that lives within us naked and free.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/thomas.htm



And I for one dance walk in these shoes, no matter who wears them first. :)

The truth is what I CAN see through the housing of the vehicles and vessels of both myth and metaphor as similar and SIMiLIE as well as smiLies. :)

I have 100 percent faith and 100% belief in GOD as I have a GOD that can be measured both by empirical means and heART.

Otherwise, my he and art WILL be broken, as they certainly HAVE BEEN in the past, and that is ONE HAS BEEN I HOPE TO REMAIN THE SAME. :)

I would agree that compulsion by nation/states pertaining to the establishment of religion had lots to do with the perpetuation of both the Christian and Islamic religions.

However, both have remained firmly entrenched in the ethos of many, mostly without true inquiry. My feeling is that the Abrahamic religions provide some measure of stability, amid the constant chaos of individual human existence. Even beyond compulsion.

I definitely agree, as elements of truth lie true in most all abstract housings of vehicles and vessels of religion and other myths.

After extensive research and analysis I personally find Unconditional Love IN PRO-SOCIAL EMOTION to be the greatest evolved HUMAN POWER IN BOTH SURVIVAL AND FUN, per nature and nurture.

ALTHOUGH one must be one of the TRIBAL 'in' folks instead of 'out' folks to truly take full advantage of that per White Arrow Straight manly Male in the U.S. or White Arrow Straight manly Male in Saudia Arabia, FOR example, respectively, in Christian and Islam religions.

It works very well for the folks it works for.

But truly crappy in historical context for women and those who are perceived as different from both the religious AND MYTHICAL NORM.

Those in power are the ones who expand their own truth as both human nature and history shows.

THE UNITED States and similar mixed free market capitalistic/social welfare states solve that AGE OLD PROBLEM increasingly with separation of church and state and FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION PER first amendment right.

Yeah, thank GOD for countries NOW under the OVERALL 'rule' of A free TRUE GOD of Mother Nature TRUE, instead of A man-made patriarchal myth of GOD that is FALSE. ;)

Nerdygirl-

Glad to hear you'r not a fundie. While I consider myself a theological moderate, my church body, the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, is mainline conservative (though there is a fundie element trying to ruin it for everyone). Might I ask what denomination you belong to?

So what did Jesus mean with "I was before Abraham"?

Dare I say I am <cough, cough> a Baptist?

I *MUST* qualify this!! !

I attend an *unafiliated* Baptist church. We do not belong to a larger denomination. We are not fundamentalist. We do not subscribe to a bunch of rules. Anything that you think is "Baptist" must be thrown out. The only way in which we are "Baptist" is in our understanding of baptism, and even then other Baptist pastors will disagree with my husband because he is willing to baptize children who profess to be believers while many will only baptize adults. (Our church subscribes to a Baptist view of church polity, and we put up with it.)

Our church is more like a "non-denominational" church and has been in existence for 150 years, so we aren't going to change the name.

My husband and I are open to different views and thoughts across denominations, even Catholic. The Christian faith boils down to personal faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and I think the splitting up among denominations is really problematic. I would say that I am in great agreement with Bonhoeffer regarding his views on ecumenism.

In summary, we are theological conservatives but find that there's a lot of gray areas and room for "agreeing to disagree" when the issue at hand is not a primary-level, essential tenet of the faith. These are the four essential tenets my husband uses to explain things at church.

1. Jesus Christ is the Son of God
2. Jesus paid the penalty for sin on the cross in a substitutionary atonement personally applied to believers.
3. Jesus rose from the dead physically.
4. Jesus will return again to judge the living and the dead.

This line of thinking does not explain how the Christian church is growing so quickly in China where it has been suppressed for decades. Neither does it explain how Christianity stayed alive (though it slowed down a bit) in the USSR. Neither does it explain how Christianity remains worldwide the fastest-growing religion, though the last century saw the growth of governments (primarily atheistic/communist) that were the most oppressive to Christianity (and religion in general.)

If the growth of Christianity was explained by government enforcement, we should see by corollary that government oppression should wipe it out. But this just isn't so. If that were true, Christianity never would have survived the first couple of centuries when Christians were thrown to the lions and such.

It appears that you have misunderstood my communication.

We were discussing why religion survived to modern times, not why it continues to grow, on a global basis, as Christianity is certainly not BY FAR the FULL MONSTER NOW THAT IT WAS per HISTORICAL TERMS.

At least women are seen as humans now and not property that should live in fear, per most Christian leaning churches today, anyway.

CHRISTIANITY evolves as has the myth and or truth of Jesus.

And in my opinion that is a great thing, as if had not, there would still LIKELY be SO-CALLED Christians still responsible for KILLING FIELDS OF HUMANS UNDER THE NAME OF A false GOD AND false CHRISTIANITY, AS IS THE case per historical past that WE WERE TALKING about, per your quote above by me.

That hasn't changed yet, fully, in middle Eastern Countries, in the name of religion and Allah there by Islamic extremists, but it is slowly evolving too, from the record that currently exists there, TG.

No need to apologize about being a Baptist - though I do understand the "cough, cough" remark, because I find myself constantly apologizing for the more intolerant actions of my own Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. My number one explanation is that my church body is run by a bunch of red state conservatives.

I follow Christ first, as a non-denominational Christian, but I also have only respect and reverence for Muhammad. I don't doubt that Muhammad was the closest person to God after Christ.

Abraham and Moses ring any bells?

I don't see how you can be a Christian, and still believe that Muhammad was second to Christ. It makes no sense to me.

Each person follows their own logic, to a degree. Especially when free thinking. Some believe that Jesus and Mohammed were cousins through Ishmael and Isaac, Abraham's sons, whether by bloodline, tribal connection, religion or ideology, or a combination of the above. The connection is held with skepticism though. But it's understandable that some would have regard for it.

I don't believe Islam could have had the long success and positive influence it had on the world unless God was behind it. Abraham and Moses were also great, righteous men, but Muhammad has influenced more people in a more positive way. That kind of power can't exist for so long without divine support.

So Muhammad has influenced people to kill those accused of apostasy, war with anyone who disagrees with his view, have multiple wives (and underage ones at that), the subjugation of women, etc?

I fail to see how that is positive.

As much I am a Catholic man and a believer, I don't think it had any "divine support" for lasting this long. Fear mongering and fundamentalism is the major reason why it is still here today, at least to me.

My God wouldn't allow an unrighteous religion to flourish for so long. Fear-mongering isn't a path to long-term success. Christianity has also been guilty of the crimes you list, especially killing apostates. That's because there is room for personal interpretation of God in both religions, so these crimes, awful as they are, don't illegitimize the positive influence they have in the world.

But Christianity doesn't do those things anymore.