Israel

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America is the biggest terrorist state on earth, they just don't call it terrorism when they kill innocent people intentionally for political goals, same goes with Israel. Some people are very easily led and can't grasp the propaganda they are swallowing.

Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Trotsky, Pol Pot, Colonist Europeans around the world (especially in America)... They were all secret Muslims, why else would they carry out genocides? On a side note, how odd that US back Muslim killers when it suits them- Saddam, Suharto, the Jihadis in Afghanistan and now the maniacs in Saudi Arabia.

Is there any evidence that those Palestinians were celebrating 9/11? The interviewer has a slice of cake? Strange though, how the media forgot about the Israeli men celebrating as the first plane hit the tower.

https://www.scribd.com/collections/4010 ... FBI-report

"it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

I guess you forgot to read that bit? It is clear, Israel's legal borders are those of 1967, they have no right to give illegally occupied land to some European or American. The US have been vetoing every UN resolution since the late 70's, stopping the conflict ever being resolved.

Yes but that was changed in 1948. Your people blew it by losing the 1948,1967 and 1973 wars when they got their asses handed to them by Israel by a superior Arab force from a people who live a small country

So why the widespread support for HAMAS then?

Don't bother with JohnPowell. You will never get a straight answer from him

You said: "I've already told you I never condone the killing of innocent people, i'm not like you."

Thank you very much for your warm words John. And I'm absolutely certain you are not "like me", how could you possibly be; we don't even agree on the definition of the word "killing."

So if I understand you correctly (I get this so wrong sometimes) you are REALLY saying:

"My brave fellow brothers and sisters righteously attack and kill those Israelis citizens for all the suffering their people have caused us. And this is righteous in their eyes because it is the noble killers understanding of their study of the Quran that tells them to do so and avenge us. And although I do not think this a good idea I respect their right to kill anyone as long as it is under the auspices of our Quran and our Islamic tradition."

It's my (possibly fallacious) understanding that makes me believe one's understanding and interpretation of the prophet's words is not open to criticism by fellow Muslims, as it is understood each is allowed to (and indeed "commanded to" in the Quran) interpret according to their understanding.

Answering this question fully will settle a lot of questions other people may have. And after you finish answering my question completely, we'll go to a question from you. I know this will be difficult, myself being an unbeliever and all.

Israel started the 48 war and the 67 war, Israel won in 1948 because they had invested large amounts of money into the military. If 20 people with sticks run at 5 men with machine guns, I bet on the 5 armed men every time. "superior", Sounds like Nazism.

Israel supported Hamas's rise in the 80's, when they tried to destroy the PLO who were ready to and agreed to settle the conflict. An Israeli scientist called this kind of occurrence a "Palestinian peace offensive". Israel will stop at nothing to make sure the conflict is never resolved.

After Israel failed to resolve the conflict in 2000, the Palestinians started a non violent resistance, which was met with a million bullets in the first few days, which escalated into a war. Israel launched a number of operations up until Hamas finally took power in 2007. "Operation Rainbow" (2004), "Operation Days of Penitence" (2004), "Operation Summer Rains" (2006), "Operation Autumn Clouds" (2006). Israel had staged a pretend disengagement of Gaza in 2005, to stop it being pressured into resolving the conflict. While in reality, Israel still controlled the borders, the waters, the airspace and all resources. The people of Gaza had, had enough. The PA is hugely corrupted and Israel is its pimp, so the people of Gaza chose Hamas, to fight fire with fire. Understandable after 60 years of hell.

ZenDen, you are the only one who keeps talking about Islam!! ! I am not a Muslim. Did Native Americans kill colonist Europeans because of Islam? No! They killed them because they were fighting an occupying force who were mass murdering them and stealing their land. Even one of Israel's lsrael's leading historian, Benny Morris wrote "The fear of territorial displacement and dispossession was to be the chief motor of Arab antagonism to Zionism".

I've responded to all of your points, you've ignored all of mine, apart from when you admitted you thought Palestinians were "scum of the earth".

They are. They blow people up in cafes and buses. In 1972 a Palestinian organization called "Black September" killed Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics. Why wont any Arab nation take them?

Hi John: I don't remember if I ever said what I thought your religion was, I generally have no such need during a discussion....are you offended? But your suggestion that "I" am the only person in this thread (or forum?) who talks about Islam is flat out wrong; but you're forgiven .

Your study of U.S. History is a little sketchy however: "Did Native Americans kill colonist Europeans because of Islam? No! They killed them because they were fighting an occupying force who were mass murdering them and stealing their land." No. There were many forces involved in the hundreds of years old conflict and for you to try to simplify, in order to compare with the present Palestinian situation is foolish....better brush up on your U.S.History (or perhaps you're a Native American?). But nice try.

Please note few Native Americans, despite all the killings and hatreds of the past hundreds of years, seldom, if ever, resort to using bomb vests against innocent school children; it's the Palestinians (Muslims or not) that do this.

And you said: " Even one of Israel's Israel's (ed.) leading historian, Benny Morris wrote "The fear of territorial displacement and dispossession was to be the chief motor of Arab antagonism to Zionism". He forgot to mention hate for the Jewish people also was a factor? Whole truths are much better than half truths, don't you agree? Please quote more of Benny Morris (not so curated) showing the factors of his arguments that illustrate further frictions? Funny you should choose Benny.

And in an earlier post you explained: "I've already told you I never condone the killing of innocent people, i'm not like you."
So I wonder John, if you don't condone the killings by Palestinians, then why do you oppose Israeli's attempts to defend themselves? It seems as though you try to make a case for terrorists to commit violence while all the Israelis are trying to do, obviously, is protect themselves from the terrorists you so much hate. The Israelis defend themselves against rabid terrorists using the most humane methods...and do not follow the orders of the people attacking them...the winner gets to choose...or hadn't you noticed?

But John...you ignore my MOST important question (also posed earlier):

"So if I understand you correctly (I get this so wrong sometimes) you are REALLY saying:

"My brave fellow brothers and sisters righteously attack and kill those Israelis citizens for all the suffering their people have caused us. And this is righteous in their eyes because it is the noble killers understanding of their study of the Quran that tells them to do so and avenge us. And although I do not think this a good idea I respect their right to kill anyone as long as it is under the auspices of our Quran and our Islamic tradition."

Is this true John? Since you say you are not a Muslim please change the above paragraph to read:

"So if I understand you correctly (I get this so wrong sometimes) you are REALLY saying:

"My brave fellow [b]palestinians righteously attack and kill those Israelis citizens for all the suffering their people have caused them. And this is righteous in their eyes because it is the noble killers understanding of their study of the Quran that tells them to do so and avenge them. And although I do not think this a good idea I respect their right to kill anyone as long as it is under the auspices of their Quran and their Islamic tradition."[/b]

Now can you answer the question and give us some insight you seem privy to? This is important information and you, being a first hand witness in Palestine and all, can teach us.

If you can, please explain to us how terrorist Palestinians use their religion to justify the killing of innocents. Is their hate so strong it will never end? What's the answer John? Thank you.

John Powell

In 1972 a did a Palestinian organization called "Black September" killed Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics.?

I'm starting to think you might be right. But I haven't even gotten to the thread yet. I hope he answers my question also because the rest of what I'd like to say depends on his answer.