What can we do about the high male suicide rate?

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I didn't mean to say that pent-up anger was the ONLY reason.

However, I like to provide out-of-the-box perspectives at times, present things from a different angle. You need to perform an action to commit suicide. It's not enough just to be sad. You still have to move your arm to pick up the gun or move your arm to pick up the pills. It's an action. You need to have at least a little bit of energy to commit suicide. You need to be panicked and in tremendous pain to feel that you have no other escape at this very moment This is a particular type of suicide that I just wanted to point out. It's not the cause of all suicides.

I hope I didn't hit any nerves. I didn't mean to say that people who have suicidal thoughts are violent people. That's not actually what I meant. However, they are often victims of violence. Depression that isn't the result of PTSD, bullying, substance abuse, domestic violence, child abuse, or other major external factors is less likely to produce suicidal ideation from my understanding.

Heavenlyabyss, my depression did not seem to be directly related to any of the factors you listed. Yet, I struggled with suicidal ideation especially during my younger years.

Don't worry I'm not someone who is easily offended, and I like out of the box thinking. Please continue.

I disagree with you on suicidal ideation, based on my understating of mental illness it can be a symptom or depression in the same way as psychosis, mania, catatonia, etc.

Btw some people get homicidal ideation, too. Often this is very distressing to them and unwanted. There is an overlap with paranoid disorders, and even Pure Obsessive OCD can get thoughts like this.

Nope, your mother is the main authority, this is just standing on the shoulders of giants.

Regarding out of the box thinking, It would be good if we can get out of the box of societal expectations, or perceptions of male behaviour. Or at least provide some other factors in addition.

That is all well an good, but it is not explaining why women's scuides have halved in the same time an males have stayed the same.

You could say, it is down to improved standards of living for women. Is the same not true for men? My impression of mental health education, is people are a bit more aware especially with more understanding of the range of conditions.

How much are these two statistics connected or separate?

C'mon folks

Answers on a postcard. You might just win a prize.

I think there's something to be said for the old stoic norms of manhood. Talking about negative experiences might help, but it might also anchor it in your brain so that it becomes more difficult to move past it.

For many males, it's a kind of trap, where the culture encourages them to talk about their feelings, and then when they do, they feel like they've lost self respect as well as the respect of the listener.

I think you would need to consider a number of situational/personal markers and then go through each case and see what turned up. We may then see clusters around certain types, if certain men and/or certain cases seem more at risk. Data is needed.

I think there should also be an examination of what has helped/improved for women (and any other particular groups that have seen a reduction in suicide). There may be analogous improvements that could help men.

For both, what were and are any commonly cited reasons for suicide.

I think the obvious still stands: a culture where men can open up to themselves and others about what's troubling them. Amongst other things, suicide can be a way out of what seems like an impossible situation - time collapses, and there's no room for hope. Make the situation not seem impossible, give genuine reason for hope, and you reduce suicide.

Unfortunately, a lot of people - particularly men - romanticise the idea of toughing it out, that they don't 'need' anyone to consider their feelings, including themselves. Indeed, that to 'need' is a sign of weakness (rather than an inevitability of the human condition), and weakness is a no-no.

As in all things, there are many factors at play, and there is a balance to be struck.

I thought of this thread this week when the son of the pastor at my parents church took his own life after an extended battle with mental illness. He was in his early 30's. I thought the obituary was very well worded. Here is a portion of it:

"For those who love D____, the question of why rings over and over in our minds. While the answer will never be fully known, D____ prevailed for years in outstanding ways in the face of mental health challenges. This time the burdens and stresses that he alone knew in full, proved to be too great. Often he reached out for help. This time he didn’t. Those who love D____ reach out in desperation for God’s grace and trust in His sovereignty for what we cannot fully understand. We long, while grieving, to also be able to celebrate the gift of D___’s life. We long to see D____’s struggle become a means of encouraging others to seek the help from family, friends, pastors, and professionals that is needed to live life fully with mental health challenges."

Yes, it is most obviously from a Christian perspective, for those who are debating from an agnostic perspective. (But bear in mind, the family is a Christian family and the gentleman who took his life was a Christian as well.) I thought it treated the topic sensitively no matter what your religious viewpoint. Why did he not reach out for help this time when he had in the past? We'll never really know, because these men take the complete explanation of their actions to the grave with them.

I have a family member who has struggled with depression and I found him a source of great encouragement when I was in a deep depression. He was very open about his own experience and his sympathy with my struggles was a great comfort. His words on this obituary were:

"I have said at times that most persons who end their lives, do not wish to die any more than the persons did who jumped from the burning Twin Towers on 9-11-2001. But the choice of burning alive became secondary to jumping away from the agony. Most humans have no idea of the degree of torment the mind can play. One can reach the point where he/she is no longer in control. That is all the more reason to get help early. Judge not that you be not judged."

No matter what steps we take (and I am all for offering help and taking away the stigma of asking for said help), sometimes someone's suffering cannot truly be relieved enough to make them want to live.

What makes you think they have an explanation other than a strong compulsion? I watched a program following a son searching for answers why his father killed himself.

There can be explanation in terms of loss or traumatic events, but not necessarily. However if you mean rationalising why they feel this way, this can actually be a trap if done wrong. Featured was a charity that provided a residential facility for suicidal people. It is not like a hospital, more like an house and the therapist help them explore their feelings.

One of the things mentioned was the men tend to try and rationalise and justify their feelings, rather then just explaining and exporting them. This can be quite negative, becuase is almost like saying to themselves the deserve it. I'm sure some women fall into this category too.

I don't feel suicidal, however prefer on on one therapy to group. Or least I did when I needed it. On the other hand I can see the benefit for some people. Probably best offer a mixture.

Yes, being told that one has been traumatized or believing that one has been traumatized can be a trap. I suffer from paranoia and OCD so I understand what it might feel like to feel traumatized because I have imagined it very vividly and believed it. However, actual trauma needs to be separated from faulty brain signals firing. Which is very difficult for someone to do in the grips of debilitating depression.

I think it's very simple actually. People kill themselves when the pain has become too great and they feel they have no way out. I wish our society offered more support to the chronically depressed. It takes constant support, not just a pill here or a therapist meeting there. It literally takes round the clock support when you are suicidal. I think support is more important than anything else. I would have been dead long ago without it.

Have you ever felt this way? Like life was too hard to continue living? I have. I am not saying my experience is the be-all and end-all of it...just one person's experience, and a female at that. But there is always an explanation, and not always just a strong compulsion to die by one's own hand. For me, i was in such pain that i could liken it to the post where i quoted my family member as saying it is like the choice of jumping from a burning building. I am very thankful now, that i didn't do it.

But the pain was unreal. Therapy was limited in helpfulness; i needed meds to calm the raging pain in my mind. After that was under control, therapy could be somewhat effective. Supportive people also helped me. The combination of the meds, later therapy, and knowing i had people who loved me kept me from going over that edge where you can't come back. I later began to feel a purpose in living, after i began to recover. That took time, to feel i was worth something.

IMO, the answer isn't to get men to discuss their feelings more openly. Not that it can't help somewhat, but it isn't the answer to let them get sappy, gooey, and weepy. Most of them aren't put together like that. The answer, in a nutshell, is to ease their pain and give them a reason to live. That is how you get anyone through an episode like this. Each person is different in what will accomplish this end. But down to nuts and bolts, that is what they need.

No, depression isn't a feeling of sadness at all. It is qualitatively different. Sadness can occur, but depression is more an overpowering emptiness and weight that pulls you down. It is a nihilistic hopelessness. There is no positive to it. No nostalgia, no fondness of memories, no meaningful tears. It is not like mourning. It is utterly without purpose.


I don't think there is any "perspective" that can help severe depression in the moment. It is very much like physical pain. You can't fully escape it. The thoughts only describe the feeling. They aren't meaningful in and of themselves. Your mind simply comes up with reasons to explain why you feel so miserable.

I actually think any high level of distress or discomfort will start to invoke a violent response. Think about what happens when someone is in excruciating physical pain. They will ultimately begin yelling and flailing around. I think any kind of negative emotion can eventually reach that state. Adrenaline takes over. It partially numbs the pain and allows you to take action, any action. Suicide is a latch ditch act in a state of extreme distress and hopelessness. Sometimes the period of adrenaline and numbness can last days, allowing a person to plan. It's like a state of shock.

Ok I gather then it is a high level of mental torment, and pain and we need to somehow ease that.

It is interesting though it is primarily chemicals begin talked about, yet there is a lot of talk of situational. No doubt there can be triggers and experiences that shape the person. Yet no two people react the same.

I have been situational depressed, maybe sub-clinical not sure. I have more experience of bad anxiety.

I do think though from my experience of talk people out of it, at that point it is like they are in a microcosm. I don't really see them as violent as a rule. I think it depends. Yes killing yourself is a violent act, however some people try to do it in a way that quick with least pain possible. Other of course can be very violent.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/11 ... ys-victim/