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Misslizard
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17 May 2016, 6:46 pm

AspE wrote:
What percentage of people die in a home invasion?

There is this thing called Google...
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/c ... p_2013.xls
Several cases of home invasion here,no deaths but they have been beat up.There was an elderly woman who was raped,I'll pass on that.She was afraid to live in her own home after that.
Like it or not,I legally own firearms.Make it illegal and I'll still be able to aquire them.Most are sold here by individuals,no background check needed.Just good ol' cold hard cash.


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cathylynn
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17 May 2016, 7:16 pm

AspE wrote:
cathylynn wrote:
AspE wrote:
5% too many.

so you want to penalize the other 95% why?

I want to help them. Not having a gun is not a penalty.


we don't need that sort of help. doctors who note a patient is suicidal tell patients to sell their guns or to lock them up and give someone else the key.
not having a gun most certainly is a penalty. some folks with mental illness hunt with bows. others aren't that talented and get around gun laws creatively to be able to hunt with guns.



AspE
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17 May 2016, 9:19 pm

Lack of enforcement is no reason to oppose a law that makes sense. The mentally ill lack the one skill most needed to be responsible for a deadly weapon, judgement. I have mentally ill friends, and by no means should they be able to legally get a gun. It's no judgement on you as an individual, it's a common sense idea.



cathylynn
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17 May 2016, 9:45 pm

Misslizard wrote:
cathylynn wrote:
AspE wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
...
My therapist thinks it's fine.He knows more about my mental health than you.
Please tell me how to deal with a rabid skunk without a gun.I'm not going to whack at it with a stick.Now that would be crazy.

I'm talking about the law, there will always be exceptions that make sense, but I don't care about those. I and most gun owners believe that the mentally ill should not have access to guns. How often do you get attacked by a rabid skunk? Aren't there pest control people you can hire? Are you in a rural area?

you are all having opinions based on falsehoods.

What falsehood?It is crazy to whack at a rabid animal with a stick. :D Maybe stupid would be a better word.

was not aiming that at you, but at "most gun owners."



cathylynn
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17 May 2016, 9:47 pm

AspE wrote:
Lack of enforcement is no reason to oppose a law that makes sense. The mentally ill lack the one skill most needed to be responsible for a deadly weapon, judgement. I have mentally ill friends, and by no means should they be able to legally get a gun. It's no judgement on you as an individual, it's a common sense idea.

maybe your friends shouldn't have guns. i worked as a social worker with folks with mental illness for seven years. i would trust the vast majority of folks i worked with with a gun. your sample is skewed. common sense informed by prejudice lacks something.



Misslizard
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17 May 2016, 10:07 pm

AspE wrote:
Lack of enforcement is no reason to oppose a law that makes sense. The mentally ill lack the one skill most needed to be responsible for a deadly weapon, judgement. I have mentally ill friends, and by no means should they be able to legally get a gun. It's no judgement on you as an individual, it's a common sense idea.

Oh bull corn.Look how many "normal" people drive drunk and kill someone,text while driving,walk into traffic taking a selfie,max out credit cards,leave the baby or pet in a hot car and other general dumbassery.Is that good judgement? You can't judge everyone by the few you know.
Some folks on the spectrum can't talk or mange their own affairs,some function better and lead successful lives.
Same goes for mental illness.And for those of us who are on the spectrum and diagnosed with a mental illness.
You might want to slack off on the hashish,it will affect your ability to safely operate a gun. :twisted:


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cathylynn
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17 May 2016, 10:15 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Watching this willful conflation of disability with mental illness, I'm reminded of why I'll never vote Democrat again.

i'm not doing the conflating and i'm a democrat.



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18 May 2016, 12:07 am

cathylynn wrote:
i'm not doing the conflating and i'm a democrat.


But AspE is, and he's a much more representative partisan Democrat than you are. Incidentally, this is how otherwise reasonable people find themselves voting GOP.


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sly279
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18 May 2016, 2:26 am

I don't get how he's supporting him sleeve being labeled mentally ill and losing his rights unless he's saying he lacks judgement and is violent, plus all aspires are like that. This stereotype is one aspires and health organizations have fought to destroy, I'm not sure AspEis a aspie, probably just another not who hates Aspies.



AspE
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18 May 2016, 11:15 am

Misslizard wrote:
AspE wrote:
Lack of enforcement is no reason to oppose a law that makes sense. The mentally ill lack the one skill most needed to be responsible for a deadly weapon, judgement. I have mentally ill friends, and by no means should they be able to legally get a gun. It's no judgement on you as an individual, it's a common sense idea.

Oh bull corn.Look how many "normal" people drive drunk and kill someone,text while driving,walk into traffic taking a selfie,max out credit cards,leave the baby or pet in a hot car and other general dumbassery.Is that good judgement? You can't judge everyone by the few you know.
Some folks on the spectrum can't talk or mange their own affairs,some function better and lead successful lives.
Same goes for mental illness.And for those of us who are on the spectrum and diagnosed with a mental illness.
You might want to slack off on the hashish,it will affect your ability to safely operate a gun. :twisted:

That's probably true, but the law has to be broad, and use some benchmark for mental fitness. No one here has denied that some mentally ill people are not fit to own a gun. The issue is exactly what criteria should be used to deny them that right?



Misslizard
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18 May 2016, 11:59 am

AspE wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
AspE wrote:
Lack of enforcement is no reason to oppose a law that makes sense. The mentally ill lack the one skill most needed to be responsible for a deadly weapon, judgement. I have mentally ill friends, and by no means should they be able to legally get a gun. It's no judgement on you as an individual, it's a common sense idea.

Oh bull corn.Look how many "normal" people drive drunk and kill someone,text while driving,walk into traffic taking a selfie,max out credit cards,leave the baby or pet in a hot car and other general dumbassery.Is that good judgement? You can't judge everyone by the few you know.
Some folks on the spectrum can't talk or mange their own affairs,some function better and lead successful lives.
Same goes for mental illness.And for those of us who are on the spectrum and diagnosed with a mental illness.
You might want to slack off on the hashish,it will affect your ability to safely operate a gun. :twisted:

That's probably true, but the law has to be broad, and use some benchmark for mental fitness. No one here has denied that some mentally ill people are not fit to own a gun. The issue is exactly what criteria should be used to deny them that right?

Some that are "sane" aren't fit to own a gun.Like domestic abusers,people with anger management problems,drunks,what criteria should we use to deny them?Anger,alcohol and guns are a bad mix for anyone involved.
I'd go with a history of violence.
There's no practical way to enforce any gun laws,in some larger cities it's easier to buy a gun off the street than find a ripe tomato.


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18 May 2016, 12:19 pm

...
Conviction of a violent crime is a start.

Like I already said, inability to enforce the law is no excuse for not having laws. Alcohol is likewise fairly easy to acquire illegally, but we still don't allow those under 21 to buy it.



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18 May 2016, 12:50 pm

AspE wrote:
...
Conviction of a violent crime is a start.

Like I already said, inability to enforce the law is no excuse for not having laws. Alcohol is likewise fairly easy to acquire illegally, but we still don't allow those under 21 to buy it.

Sure,but some are just not enforcable.You can't police everybody all the time.
Prohibition didn't stop people from drinking.Dry counties don't stop people from buying.It just gives the money and in some cases the political power to people who break the law.What about weed?Are you in a legal state? It not,step away from the hookah.Place it slowly on the ground,raise your hands and back slowly away from it.You are committing a criminal act.
Surely you don't want some sort of 1984 type society?


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Dr_Manhattan
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18 May 2016, 1:00 pm

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... niors-gun/

Usually, what they mean is people with disorders closely related to violent behavior or those who are not intellectually fit to operate such machinery. Those who are not slow or disturbed are exempt from this.



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18 May 2016, 1:04 pm

Misslizard wrote:
AspE wrote:
...
Conviction of a violent crime is a start.

Like I already said, inability to enforce the law is no excuse for not having laws. Alcohol is likewise fairly easy to acquire illegally, but we still don't allow those under 21 to buy it.

Sure,but some are just not enforcable.You can't police everybody all the time.
Prohibition didn't stop people from drinking.Dry counties don't stop people from buying.It just gives the money and in some cases the political power to people who break the law.What about weed?Are you in a legal state? It not,step away from the hookah.Place it slowly on the ground,raise your hands and back slowly away from it.You are committing a criminal act.
Surely you don't want some sort of 1984 type society?

So because I don't want the mentally ill to be able to buy an AR-15, I'm advocating some big brother situation? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?



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18 May 2016, 1:48 pm

Why was my post deleted?