Is Shariah law really such an awful thing?

Page 10 of 12 [ 177 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 Next

Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,893

13 Aug 2016, 7:17 pm

More like “when people freely choose what to believe or not and no tyrant manages to impose any particular belief system or lack thereof on them”, “when women decide to be free and there aren’t enough male chauvinists determined and powerful enough to ensure they continue to be treated like livestock or pets” and “when people aren’t subjected by me; therefore, since someone else might take away your freedom, I’ll preëmptively take it away myself”.

_________________
The red lake has been forgotten. A dust devil stuns you long enough to shroud forever those last shards of wisdom. The breeze rocking this forlorn wasteland whispers in your ears, “Não resta mais que uma sombra”.

Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

13 Aug 2016, 7:30 pm

:arrow:

Mikah wrote:

^ A bit of a slur, but not entirely without truth. I don't believe in a coming godless age of enlightened self interest, I don't believe Man as a species can prosper without abstract ideals and external untouchable authority. If that is the case, then I pick a Western Christian tradition. The worst in the world, except for all the others. Religion, socially conservative values and all the rest WAS the great evolutionary step forward for human civilisation.

Quote:

My prophecy: As the fabulous myth of militant jihadist supremacy is revealed to be a hollow bag of cruelty and empty promises, the current enthusiasm for it will die and a primarily atheist agnosticism will become the fastest growing belief among the descendants of Muslim immigrants to the West.

Fanciful I'm afraid, the Muslim world is heading in a more theocratic direction. The decline of our civilisation is not a paragraph in a history book, it is right in our faces in full HD quality. All leaders have to do is play these scenes to the worried masses. This is what happens when you ditch God, this is what happens when you liberate women, this is what happens when people are free from X, Y or Z. Rigid social conservatism is coming back one way or another, either we rediscover it (something that has not happened ever in human history) or it will be imposed on us by another, if we even survive as a recognisable entity.

As such things have always been in history...the decline of our civilization if that occurs will be a page in history books. No civilization is guaranteed to live forever. Perhaps this really is the decline of our civilization, but it's happened before, why should our civilization be any different. Because 'this is the bestest country in the world' doesn't mean it's infallible, Romans thought they had the best society/country before their civilization collapsed.

_________________
Tis the time to melt the Ice.

Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

13 Aug 2016, 7:33 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

Mikah wrote:

Quote:

Religion should be a private matter, not public policy.

I'm going off this idea, it sounds nice on paper, but I fear it just leaves a power vacuum that will be filled sooner or later. Those who endlessly call for or praise separation of church and state are invariably pushing a belief system of their own, one that they would have dominate the land. I hope I live to see the wolves who demand the shepherd not protect his flock "for secular principles" finding themselves overrun by something much much worse than what existed before.

Only a non American like you would post this nonsense.

America's Founding Fathers wrote seperation of Church and State into our Constitution. After two centuries your doom scenario has not happened here in the US. In fact almost the exact opposite thing has happened:In European countries like Britain that have a government sanctioned official religion there has been an almost total collapse of the faith. In contrast in the US where we fight for seperation of church and state we have the most religious and most churchgoing population in the industrialized world.

Those folks who push for the keeping the seperation in America are usually an alliance between secular folks and the religious who have a common interest in opposing government imposing a particular religion. Americans who want to maintain seperation of church and state often have quite opposing views, and dont necessarily have one particular creed that they are "trying to push".

The first thinker in human history to ever suggest the weird idea that church should sometimes be separated from state was the guy who said "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and render unto God what is God's".He was a guy named Jesus Christ.

I think if the guy was real he's respectable....word says he also might have used cannabis oil in some of the cases where he cured people of terrible ailments. And I am one of those people you see around wearing rather satanic metal t-shirts.

_________________
Tis the time to melt the Ice.

anagram
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Nov 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,433
Location: 4 Nov 2012

13 Aug 2016, 7:34 pm

if you're not an emperor or aspiring emperor yourself, caring about empires is most unwise

_________________
404

anagram
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Nov 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,433
Location: 4 Nov 2012

13 Aug 2016, 7:41 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

jesus was an anti-bureaucracy reformist. a rather mentally-unstable one as it seems, but the basic principles he defended seem rather sound to me. whether or not he intended to found a new universal movement seems unclear to me. my guess is he didn't, and he just really cared a lot about what he preached. crucifixion was a rather common punishment back then. so maybe he didn't even intend to be seen as a unique martyr. maybe just one martyr, for that one social cause he cared about. after all, he was executed for his political obstinacy, not for heresy

_________________
404

Last edited by anagram on 13 Aug 2016, 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BaalChatzaf
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,050
Location: Monroe Twp. NJ

13 Aug 2016, 7:47 pm

Mikah wrote:

I know. That doesn't mean Caesar should be blind to religion or pretend that certain religions if they reach critical mass won't tear up your precious constitution.

State and Church have been successfully kept apart in the U.S. because no one religion and its church will tolerate another religion and its church for trying to seize power. It is the selfish interest of each church group that assures separation of government and religion.

_________________
Socrates' Last Words: I drank what!! !?????

Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

13 Aug 2016, 7:55 pm

Just see what happens in game of thrones when Cersi allows a certain religious element certain power....doesn't go so well.

_________________
Tis the time to melt the Ice.

Spiderpig
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,893

13 Aug 2016, 8:22 pm

On the other hand, irreligious people don’t like having religions shoved down their throats, either, so, if they grow numerous enough, they can help keep Church and state separated, too.

Mikah
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 23 Oct 2015
Age: 38
Posts: 3,201
Location: England

13 Aug 2016, 10:14 pm

Quote:

More like “when people freely choose what to believe or not and no tyrant manages to impose any particular belief system or lack thereof on them”, “when women decide to be free and there aren’t enough male chauvinists determined and powerful enough to ensure they continue to be treated like livestock or pets” and “when people aren’t subjected by me; therefore, since someone else might take away your freedom, I’ll preëmptively take it away myself”.

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who believe they are free...

_________________
Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory, Farewell!

anagram
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Nov 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,433
Location: 4 Nov 2012

13 Aug 2016, 10:15 pm

Mikah wrote:

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who believe they are free...

moderation, my friend. moderation. everything is poison when taken in excess

_________________
404

anagram
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Nov 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,433
Location: 4 Nov 2012

14 Aug 2016, 2:27 am

in other news...

Barchan wrote:

Shariah law is a form of imperialism. Ideally I think piety to God should be a personal choice, and not legally enforced.

(http://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=297651#p6849735)

that's from last year. have we been pranked? :mrgreen:

if so, well played. either way, it's been a good discussion

_________________
404

dcj123
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Sep 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,796

14 Aug 2016, 2:44 am

The truth?

Probably will get me in trouble but if you study religious text you'll find that most have a similar origin and similar theme. I am not going to debate rather I think Islam or Christianity or Judaism or whatever is the single correct faith as I have my opinions but I will say that all of these religions talk about false witnesses and false prophets and false religions. Clearly the reason we have so many religions is there is a dark force that is trying hard to remove the truth. I personally wouldn't be surprised if various parts of all the religions don't have some type of fact with it. Still the point I am making is all this fighting over religion has clearly been to hide the truth from the people. Things like Shariah law are clearly meant to do more harm then good, is that to say that Islam is a false religion? No but I think that all of our current religions have a lot of misinformation in them, even Christianity. The goal of evil is to deceive and look around and you can see that its working pretty well. Look at all the evil done in the name of God, doesn't matter which one. The truth is out there but I don't think its in a single book or location or quote on quote religion.

anagram
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Nov 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,433
Location: 4 Nov 2012

14 Aug 2016, 3:00 am

i remember reading about this stuff some ten years ago when i was going through a sort of manic episode and obsessed with religion. it kind of resolved my obsession. i thought it was the coolest thing in the world. too bad it never really caught on anywhere

@mikah: how's this for a suggestion btw?

right now i'm starting to get interested in norse revival. it's even officially recognized in iceland already. they can do legally valid marriage ceremonies and stuff

_________________
404

Adamantium
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 Feb 2013
Age: 1026
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,863
Location: Erehwon

14 Aug 2016, 10:28 am

Mikah wrote:

Rigid social conservatism is coming back one way or another, either we rediscover it (something that has not happened ever in human history) or it will be imposed on us by another, if we even survive as a recognisable entity.

It doesn't have to come back, it never went away. It will never be dominant again in the West.

We've seen it tried before. We see it being tried now. And everywhere it is tried, it sucks.

Even it's fans only want it when they imagine that it will reinforce all their favorite prejudices without ever impinging on their freedom or grinding them under it's oppressive forces. And when it turns on them, they hate it and flee.

Argentina. Chile. Austria. Germany. France. Sucked every time.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016 ... ngary.html

It's a minority political position that does best as the fantasy refuge of bitter, nasty people in opposition governments run by people with better ideas. The more power a bunch like Jobbik get, the worse it is to be around them.

Tomorrow doesn't belong to them.

Barchan
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 920

14 Aug 2016, 11:07 am

anagram wrote:

that's from last year. have we been pranked? :mrgreen:

Well, not exactly. I think I was just in a really bad mood when I made this thread.

Mikah
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 23 Oct 2015
Age: 38
Posts: 3,201
Location: England

14 Aug 2016, 11:41 am

Quote:

And everywhere it is tried, it sucks.

You mean you don't like it. It asks a lot of people, mentally and emotionally, it calls for a great deal of self-restraint. But it does work, it is effective and it has overwhelmed every other form of civilisation.

Quote:

Tomorrow doesn't belong to them.

Demographics is destiny. That tomorrow belongs to socially conservative groupings can already be seen in the birth rate data, perhaps not the European Christian version of social conservatism, but someone's certainly. If you don't want the status quo to change, you had better start breeding.

_________________
Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory, Farewell!

Page 10 of 12 [ 177 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 Next

Jump to:

Is Shariah law really such an awful thing? Post Reply New Topic

Is Shariah law really such an awful thing?