What constitutes "white supremacy"?

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Brictoria
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24 Aug 2020, 5:27 am

magz wrote:

Back to the topic: where I live, "white supremacist" is interpreted as literally nazi. Literally means the historical Nazis that carried on systematic genocide in which my grandparents lost their friends and relatives.
It's a very, very serious accusation. Careless use of language or bad taste jokes are not enough to justify it.

That is what it means in almost every country around the world, which is what makes people take so much offence when people throw it around at people with who they have a disagreement. Even more so when no justification is supplied, even when specififcally requested.

naturalplastic
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24 Aug 2020, 5:27 am

cyberdad wrote:

naturalplastic wrote:

But back to DNA.

That dog article is interesting but...baffling.

I read in Discover magazine only a couple of years ago that scientists couldnt tell the DNA of a purebred Pekinese from the DNA of a wild timber wolf. But apparently that author had made some huge breakthroughs, and now they can tell apart specific breeds.

But how can humans differ from each other in DNA by 5.4 percent when we are each genetically 99.9 percent the same as every other human?

And how can dogs differ in the double digits numbers greater than the genetic difference between dogs and humans, and dogs and toads? The genetic differences between different species of mammals, or even different species of vertabrates of different classes (comparing a mammal to a bird say),is less than the number they give for the difference between breeds of dogs.

The decimal place is out...

If you move it to the left then that "five percent" (one in 20), becomes "point five percent" (one in 200),and once more to the left it becomes "point oh five percent" (one in 2000). If humans max out at one part in a thousand from each other then it would make sense that we would average in distance from each other about half that, or ".054" percent in genetic difference. So yes, that does make sense that they just got sloppy with the decimal points.

naturalplastic
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24 Aug 2020, 5:30 am

magz wrote:

Back to the topic: where I live, "white supremacist" is interpreted as literally nazi. Literally means the historical Nazis that carried on systematic genocide in which my grandparents lost their friends and relatives. Some of them got C-PTSD that still poisons my family, almost 80 years later, resulting in mental illness and suicides.
It's a very, very serious accusation. Careless use of language or bad taste jokes are not enough to justify it.

In America it means "a person who believes that the White race is superior to all other races". Which would include Nazis (they would be an extreme example). And it IS a serious thing to accuse someone of.

magz
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24 Aug 2020, 6:01 am

naturalplastic wrote:

magz wrote:

Back to the topic: where I live, "white supremacist" is interpreted as literally nazi. Literally means the historical Nazis that carried on systematic genocide in which my grandparents lost their friends and relatives. Some of them got C-PTSD that still poisons my family, almost 80 years later, resulting in mental illness and suicides.
It's a very, very serious accusation. Careless use of language or bad taste jokes are not enough to justify it.

I suppose calling someone "white supremacist" in the US may come across as "you are fine with all the dehumanizing horror of historical slavery because it suited your ethnic group". That's much more serious than not being sensitive enough to problems of inequality.

I think it may me problematic that, seemingly, when it comes to difficult chapters of US history, part of the society is still in the stage of Denial, while the other part have moved on to the stage of Anger.

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Brictoria
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24 Aug 2020, 6:09 am

magz wrote:

naturalplastic wrote:

magz wrote:

Back to the topic: where I live, "white supremacist" is interpreted as literally nazi. Literally means the historical Nazis that carried on systematic genocide in which my grandparents lost their friends and relatives. Some of them got C-PTSD that still poisons my family, almost 80 years later, resulting in mental illness and suicides.
It's a very, very serious accusation. Careless use of language or bad taste jokes are not enough to justify it.

I feel that many (most?) had moved on from the Anger stage, but politicians and others have been trying to pull them back, whipping up animosity for their own ends.

There seem to be 2 sections in their community, those who work to build bridges and those seeking to tear them down.

magz
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24 Aug 2020, 6:20 am

Brictoria wrote:

those who work to build bridges and those seeking to tear them down.

On both sides of political divisions.

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Bradleigh
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24 Aug 2020, 6:33 am

Brictoria wrote:

Building bridges should be at the right spots, and far too many people seem set on the idea that racism itself is over, which it isn't, or still try and create some other kind of racism, such as a demonization or distrust of people who are of middle eastern descent. Those sorts of bridges should be burned, bridges should not be made along the lines of something like a lot of Muslims cultures have problems with sexism or homophobia, and those who think that all Muslims are terrorists and like to live in open sewage. A lot of racists like to pretend that they are concerned over homophobia, when really they just want Islamophobia more.

Just recently in America you see how all of those supposed free speech warriors, were not at all for the BLM protests. They act like they are on principal wanting to fight for the ability to fight against a tyranical government, and thus should have guns everywhere, but say nothing about the police violence against black people, the systematic oppressions from the government bodies that don't actually affect them.

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magz
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24 Aug 2020, 6:37 am

And what do these problems look like in Australia?

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Brictoria
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24 Aug 2020, 6:53 am

magz wrote:

And what do these problems look like in Australia?

To those in settlements/outback: Please help us with jobs and services
To those of Aboriginal descent who are "middle class" or above: we (personally) need restitution for what happened to our ancestors.
To the rest: Let us get on with our lives.

As outlined by my mother-in-law's partner who is supposedly one of the "stolen generation", but who knows he was saved, not stolen, having seen what happened to his siblings who were not "stolen".

Bradleigh
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24 Aug 2020, 6:58 am

Historically Australia has had something called the White Australia Policy, that I think officially ended in 1973. I think that I already mentioned the Cronulla Riots that happened in 2005, which feels kind of shocking that it was 15 years ago now, but I have still heard quite a bit of non-white people or those who do not speak English well being told to go back where they came from. Apparently the laid back part of Australian culture hides some racism that does not get the sort of attention it should.

All of this despite the native aboriginal people, that my perception is that they are generally poorer and judged harshly.

We have had a notorious political party called, separate from the main two, headed by a Pauline Hanson, who has had a history of racism, first with Asians and more recently against Muslims. And a surprising amount of people can be pulled to her side by seeing her as just an everyday battler. I myself have had back towards my mother, who used to hate her, but has seen her as more genuine than other politicians, and coincided certain anti-Islamic attitudes.

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magz
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24 Aug 2020, 7:21 am

Brictoria wrote:

magz wrote:

And what do these problems look like in Australia?

I'm a bit confused - what does the word "to" indicate in this context? Is it what the Aboriginal say to the rest or the other way around?

Brictoria wrote:

As outlined by my mother-in-law's partner who is supposedly one of the "stolen generation", but who knows he was saved, not stolen, having seen what happened to his siblings who were not "stolen".

Personal perspective! I'd love to hear it! What did happen to his siblings?

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Brictoria
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24 Aug 2020, 7:29 am

magz wrote:

Brictoria wrote:

magz wrote:

And what do these problems look like in Australia?

I'm a bit confused - what does the word "to" indicate in this context? Is it what the Aboriginal say to the rest or the other way around?

"To", in this case, was "in the opinion of", or "as seen by".

magz wrote:

Brictoria wrote:

As outlined by my mother-in-law's partner who is supposedly one of the "stolen generation", but who knows he was saved, not stolen, having seen what happened to his siblings who were not "stolen".

Personal perspective! What did happen to his siblings?

Some of them were also "stolen" by being sent\taken to the missions, where they received education, healthy food, and were able to get jobs (He retired a few years back from working as a team boss on the railways doing track maintenance) and is currently doing his 3rd (from memory) fight with cancer.

His siblings who were not "stolen" remained in the "camp" with his parents, and had a hard time through not having had the schooling (or nutrition) that the "stolen" children had, which affected them through thier lives. His opinion is he wasn't "stolen", he was "saved". He heads back "home (or he did when he was healthier) when he could to visit family\friends\"tribe", and so knows what happened to those left behind when he was taken away.

magz
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24 Aug 2020, 7:38 am

Brictoria wrote:

magz wrote:

Brictoria wrote:

magz wrote:

And what do these problems look like in Australia?

I'm a bit confused - what does the word "to" indicate in this context? Is it what the Aboriginal say to the rest or the other way around?

"To", in this case, was "in the opinion of", or "as seen by".

Thanks, that makes sense.

Brictoria wrote:

magz wrote:

Brictoria wrote:

As outlined by my mother-in-law's partner who is supposedly one of the "stolen generation", but who knows he was saved, not stolen, having seen what happened to his siblings who were not "stolen".

Personal perspective! What did happen to his siblings?

Well, integration into modern society is probably simply needed to live in the modern world - even if the process itself wasn't smooth or nice at all.

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Brictoria
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24 Aug 2020, 7:56 am

magz wrote:

Brictoria wrote:

magz wrote:

Brictoria wrote:

magz wrote:

And what do these problems look like in Australia?

I'm a bit confused - what does the word "to" indicate in this context? Is it what the Aboriginal say to the rest or the other way around?

"To", in this case, was "in the opinion of", or "as seen by".

Thanks, that makes sense.

Brictoria wrote:

magz wrote:

Brictoria wrote:

As outlined by my mother-in-law's partner who is supposedly one of the "stolen generation", but who knows he was saved, not stolen, having seen what happened to his siblings who were not "stolen".

Personal perspective! What did happen to his siblings?

Well, integration into modern society is probably simply needed to live in the modern world - even if the process itself wasn't smooth or nice at all.

Whilst removing the children - either parents sending the children away to the missions so they could have a better life, or social workers removing them due to the sqalor or lack of care they were receiving wasn't ideal, it was done for their welfare.

We still have a lot of people who know nothing about what really occurred and who like to talk about a "stolen generation", where children were taken from their parents and sent away becuase they were aboriginal, but there has never been evidence of this produced - documentation regarding children taen explains the reasons, and in fact, it was found that there was never a policy to remove children for that reason anywhere in Australia.

Unfortunately, there are people who want "free money" (his children tried to get him to apply for "compensation" in the hope they could get the money, but he refused. What is needed is a way to help those who were not "stolen", and are forced to live in the outback - either through jobs\services to their areas, or in some cases they may (unfortunately) be better served if they were provided land nearer existing cities\towns\settlements, as where they live is too remote for this to be able to be supplied in a reasonable\apprpriate manner. At present, a lot of the money set aside to help Aboriginals (grants for education\arts\etc.) goes to those who are already living in cities and are middle class or higher, while those who need the support are left to fend for themselves.

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24 Aug 2020, 7:58 am

@ Brictoria

You don't think that there could have been a better way to help them other than stealing the children away from their parents, and doing things like indoctrinating them into a religion. I think it is pretty clear that those behind the stolen generation thought that all elements of the white culture were supreme and wanted to force them to adopt it by committing a cultural genocide.

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naturalplastic
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24 Aug 2020, 8:15 am

Wolfram87 wrote:

You'd be surprised how many hold tgat view unironically. Or maybe you wouldn't.

I'd like to buy a cube of hate, please.

Its kinda like beef, or chicken, bullion.

Just drop it in and season everything with a little hatred!

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