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chever
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20 Sep 2008, 1:38 am

Hever's Law: drunks rarely talk about equivalence relations


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auntyjack
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20 Sep 2008, 2:25 am

slowmutant wrote:
Anarchy incorrectly assumes

a) goverment is unnecessary
b) everyone knows right from wrong, good from evil
c) everyone is motivated by the desire to make society work
d) crime, poverty, and all manner of suffering will cease to exist once anarchy reigns

~~

Anarchists are the ones with their heads in the clouds. Sometimes they call themselves Libertarians in an attempt to fool us. :shameonyou:


um i think you are wrong about the assumptions of anarchy.
a. government can be about service provision etc and not about enforcing majority values.
b. it does not matter if a few people do not know right from wrong or good from evil if the majority respond to all actions in ethical ways.
c. ditto
d. i dont think that the elimination of crime, poverty and suffering is a goal of anarchy. I think it is an ideal. Isn't that the same for democracy? Should we get rid of democracy because not everyone in society lives according to democratic principles?



Magnus
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20 Sep 2008, 3:37 am

I am tempted to look up Hever's Law. What are you talking about? :lol:

Okay, I'm done giggling. What makes it even funnier is that you look so serious when you said it. Anyways...

Democracy looks good in theory. I think it is impossible for people to live together without wanting to kill each other eventually if we rely on outside forces to modify our behavior rather than take personal responsibility for our thoughts and actions.

Do you think that our government is heading toward a cult like Christian Coalition? Palin scares me. I'm concerned that religion is sneaking into our government and seeking to control the minds of people through herd mentality training which comes at us through the media.


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20 Sep 2008, 7:23 am

chever wrote:
Plenty of NT's know how to use the word 'proof' correctly; in fact, I learned "proof is for alcohol, mathematics and law" from an NT. No excuses
I'm not an NT but: -
MS Word wrote:
Proof: Synonyms: Proof, Evidence, Sign and Criterion. Meanings: Evidence (n.) Synonyms: Evidence, Testimony, Verification, Confirmation, Attestation, Corroboration and Substantiation. Resistant (adj.) Synonyms: Resistant, Waterproof, Impermeable, Impervious and Resilient.

Wiktionary wrote:
Proof English Etymology: From Latin probare, test Pronounciation: IPA /pru:f/ Noun proof (plural proofs)
1. Any effort, process, or operation designed to establish or discover a fact or truth; an act of testing; a test; a trial.
(A date for this quote is being sought): Edmund Spenser,
For whatsoever mother wit or art Could work, he put in proof.
(A date for this quote is being sought): Ford,
You shall have many proofs to show your skill.
(A date for this quote is being sought): Ure,
Formerly, a very rude mode of ascertaining the strength of spirits was practiced, called the proof.
2. The degree of evidence which convinces the mind of any truth or fact, and produces belief; a test by facts or arguments which induce, or tend to induce, certainty of the judgment; conclusive evidence; demonstration.
(A date for this quote is being sought): William Shakespeare,
I'll have some proof.
(A date for this quote is being sought): Ralph Waldo Emerson,
It is no proof of a man's understanding to be able to confirm whatever he pleases.
1990 October 28, Paul Simon, “Proof”, The Rhythm of the Saints, Warner Bros.
Faith, faith is an island in the setting sun / But proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone
3. The quality or state of having been proved or tried; firmness or hardness which resists impression, or doesn't yield to force; impenetrability of physical bodies.
4. Firmness of mind; stability not to be shaken.
5. (printing) A proof sheet; a trial impression, as from type, taken for correction or examination.
6. (mathematics): A process for testing the accuracy of an operation performed. Compare Prove, transitive verb, 5.
7. (obsolete): Armour of excellent or tried quality, and deemed impenetrable; properly, armour of proof.
8. (US) A measure of the alcohol content of liquor. Originally, in Britain, 100 proof was defined as 57.1% by volume (not used anymore). In the US, 100 proof means that the alcohol content is 50% of the total volume of the liquid, and thus, absolute alcohol would be 200 proof.

Collins English Dictionary wrote:
Proof (pru:f) n 1 any evidence that establishes or helps to establish the truth, validity, quality, etc, of something 2 law the whole body of evidence upon which the verdict of a court is based 3 maths, logic a sequence of steps or statements that establishes the truth of a proposition. See also direct (sense 17), induction (senses, 4, 8 ) 4 the act of testing the truth of something (esp in the phrase put to the proof) 5 Scots law trial before a judge without a jury 6 printing a trial impression made from composed type, or a print-out (from a laser printer, etc) for the correction of errors 7 (in engraving, etc) a print made by an artist or under his supervision for his own satisfaction before he hands over the plate to a professional printer 8 photog a trial print from a negative 9 a the alcoholic strength of proof spirit b the strength of a beverage or other alcoholic liquor as measured on a scale in which the strength of proof spirit is 100 degrees -> adj 10 (usually postpositive; foll by against) able to resist; impervious (to): the roof is proof against rain 11 having the alcoholic strength of proof spirit 12 of proved strength or impenetrability: proof armour -> vb. 13 (tr) to take a proof from (type matter, a plate, etc) 14 to proofread (text) or inspect (a print, etc), as for approval 15 to render (something) proof, esp to waterproof [c13 from Old French preuve a test, from Late Latin proba, from Latin probare to test]
-Proof adj -> vb combining form secure against (damage by); (make) impervious to: waterproof; mothproof; childproof [from PROOF (adj)]
Proofread (‘pru:f,ri:d) vb –reads, -reading, -read (-,red) to read (copy or printer’s proofs) to detect and mark errors to be corrected > ‘proof,reader n
Proof Spirit n 1 (in Britain and Canada) a mixture of alcohol and water or an alcoholic beverage that contains 49.28 per cent of alcohol by weight, 57.1 [er cent by volume at 51 F: up until 1980 used as a standard of alcoholic liquids 2 (in the US) a similar standard mixture containing 50 per cent alcohol by volume at 60 F
Proof Stress n engineering the equivalent of yield stress in materials which have no clearly defined yield point
Proof Theory n the branch of logic that studies the syntactic properties of formal theories, esp the syntactic characterization of deductive validity.

Have a good job dealing with reality =]

chever wrote:
people who lose arguments to me

I have not, quote, lost, unquote, anything considering you have not been able to refute anything or back up anything you have said (as if this were a serious debate anyway). So either you are making things up or are wilfully misrepresenting and distorting information to support your view and nothing you say has any intrinsic value. Unless of course by “lose” you actually mean, “present non-stop facts” then yeah, you've got me =] If you want to talk about the original "point", or better still THE ACTUAL TOPIC then feel free, otherwise stop feeding the trolls. Thanks for proving my point… again. =] You are making this far too easy.

magnus wrote:
Do you think that our government is heading toward a cult like Christian Coalition? Palin scares me. I'm concerned that religion is sneaking into our government and seeking to control the minds of people through herd mentality training which comes at us through the media.
I would not be surprised if that were the case. Palin freaks me the hell out. Thankfully I live in the UK, which I guess isn't that different seeing as our leader is screwing the country over and people within his own party want him out.

Oh and Dostoevsky is awesome!


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chever
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20 Sep 2008, 10:54 am

Sling wrote:
Have a good job dealing with reality =]


What reality? Your reality?

http://fig.cox.miami.edu/~cmallery/150/ ... cimeth.htm
http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/12/22/224450/84
http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Proof

There is no proof in science

There is no proof in science

And last: there is no proof in science

If you really knew more than me (at least on scientific subjects), it would be very strange for you to have missed such a basic fact.

And don't ask lexicographers; they don't know. Ask scientists.

Sling wrote:
...words...


Whatever


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jul
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20 Sep 2008, 11:27 am

I agree with Magnus and Sling on the potential of scary Palin getting into the White House and generating her own brand of mayhem. People who claim the Republican Iraq war and deregulation were the principle faults of Bushie's white house admin, are only partially right, unfortunately. The Bushie Admin was also responsible for closing files on government business normally open to public access and running dissenting voices from their closed circle (like Colin Powell -- remember him?) I haven't even touched on the rest of their sins, but Scary Palin is fully capable of promulgating more of the same sins, secretiveness and an ability to throw a clog in any investigative system. WE're seeing that now with Troopergate and the lack of power in the Alaskan legislature to get around the Executive branch's obtuseness. That's giving way too much power to the Executive branch to begin with, even if they had nothing to hide,but of course by the way that governor's office is acting, they must have plenty to hide. Otherwise, why refuse to testify?

"But in these cases, we still have judgement here" as Shakespeare's MacBeth said, and that judgement will not be benign, I believe in the case of Troopergate, but what is important to me anyway is that anarchy affords little protection and comfort to people in these types of cases. Anarchy, in fact, assumes that people don't need protection because anarchy lives only in the absence of need, of need for leaders, material products, religion, government. (But you can't have anarchywith people like Palin and Cheney in the world.) A lot of the things that are poison to everyday lives, anarchy conveniently says we don't need. But there is no protection under the umbrella of anarchy from anyone who would abuse the system.

In fact, anarchy in its purest form, assumes the end of the need for systems, but that of course is also an invitation to abuse by people with the power hungry mindset that drives all greed and ambition. Why do we have power, war, money? Why are these things exchanged bartered for and fought for? I don't know, but get rid of the need to rely on systems that take the place of intelligence, religions that take the place of spirituality, and governments that take the place of thinking and there you have a place for anarchy to grow. But you see it everywhere, the undeniable human ego, even in this thread, which would take the place of what is important, of what is immediate, and subjugate all else to this restless quest for dominance. So I guess I find I'm coming to the conclusion that to live in the purest form of anarchy is to live without the human ego, and then maybe we are then giving up some part of being human.

I suppose I'm hearing echoes of Ayn Rand's Objectionism in my meanderings too. I think that might be a different thread altogether though!



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20 Sep 2008, 11:51 am

Phagocyte wrote:
Sling wrote:
A doctorate or master's eh? You must have started University when you were 15 years old then, which would impress me if it were true, but most likely is not the case and you're just a braggart. Mature men do not do those things. How can anything you have done or said be defined as mature? Mature men are not flat out rude, do not fight for the sake of fighting and are not braggarts. Maturity requires civility. Thanks for proving my point though.


Incorrect. Chever is generally only rude to baffoons. I apologize for whatever direction the transitive property of binary relations shall take you.


It's spelled B-U-F-F-O-O-N. You buffoon.



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20 Sep 2008, 11:59 am

Great writing Jul.

Spirituality in America is categorized in the DSM book of psychological disorders as schizophrenia. People are taught that they are crazy if they believe they can commune with God. We are taught that it is normal to follow rules of religion without questioning. But, isn't that exactly what Jesus did? He rebelled against the religion of his day. He added to the bible of his day. He was a pariah for disobeying the laws. He talked to angels and spoke to God directly. The pope says that we have to go to church and confess to the priest if we want to seek forgiveness for our bad thoughts and actions. We are told that the pope is infallible and his teachings are dogma and if we so much as have an original thought that may contradict the religion then we are sinners and must repent for being led astray. I think that should go in the book of psychological disorders.


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Last edited by Magnus on 20 Sep 2008, 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

chever
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20 Sep 2008, 12:10 pm

slowmutant wrote:
Phagocyte wrote:
Sling wrote:
A doctorate or master's eh? You must have started University when you were 15 years old then, which would impress me if it were true, but most likely is not the case and you're just a braggart. Mature men do not do those things. How can anything you have done or said be defined as mature? Mature men are not flat out rude, do not fight for the sake of fighting and are not braggarts. Maturity requires civility. Thanks for proving my point though.


Incorrect. Chever is generally only rude to baffoons. I apologize for whatever direction the transitive property of binary relations shall take you.


It's spelled B-U-F-F-O-O-N. You buffoon.


Spelling flames are too easy


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Magnus
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20 Sep 2008, 12:14 pm

It's harder to spell words that you don't see very often. I take it you must have seen this one many times in response to your posts.

Chevor, you are funnier when you are not mean spirited. I appreciate having a few good laughs...words...


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slowmutant
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20 Sep 2008, 12:18 pm

chever wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
Phagocyte wrote:
Sling wrote:
A doctorate or master's eh? You must have started University when you were 15 years old then, which would impress me if it were true, but most likely is not the case and you're just a braggart. Mature men do not do those things. How can anything you have done or said be defined as mature? Mature men are not flat out rude, do not fight for the sake of fighting and are not braggarts. Maturity requires civility. Thanks for proving my point though.


Incorrect. Chever is generally only rude to baffoons. I apologize for whatever direction the transitive property of binary relations shall take you.


It's spelled B-U-F-F-O-O-N. You buffoon.


Spelling flames are too easy


I know but I just couldn't resist.



Magnus
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20 Sep 2008, 12:22 pm

Sorry, I was meaning to offend you Slowmutant.

Can we get back on topic again?! !! :?


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20 Sep 2008, 12:24 pm

slowmutant wrote:

It's spelled B-U-F-F-O-O-N. You buffoon.


That hurts! I love you!


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slowmutant
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20 Sep 2008, 12:24 pm

This thread has become anarchic.

How deliciously ironic. :D



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20 Sep 2008, 12:26 pm

Magnus wrote:
I take it you must have seen this one many times in response to your posts.


:lol: YA RLY!

slowmutant wrote:
This thread has become anarchic.

How deliciously ironic. :D


*lights building on fire and screams psychotically*


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20 Sep 2008, 1:38 pm

You're all out of order!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bM_l443VV4[/youtube]


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