*Feminism IS Population Control*

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wow That is so incredibly ignorant. First off, the cost of living today is higher because of inflation more than anything. And the banks control the money, not us. Also being in debt is caused by what? Poor spending habits (true there are exceptions)...Colleges are all way too expensive, and that is not because of women, it is because off a massive amount of people going to school in general...there are way more people now then there were in the 60's. How about you take a look at all of the single mother households in LA and NY and then tell me it is feminism that caused the problems... the only thing feminism caused IMO is a massive amount of women who think they have something to prove, when in reality, they are just the same as us. Oh and also a massive overflow of estragen in the work place making many men change into very feminate individuals(seriously, seen it)...also there are now more law suits as well as sexual harrasment cases ... oh and many guys are hindered in the work place because they can not have posters of certain women (deemed offensive) and coffee room chatter has changed ... men can't talk as graficly without looking over a shouldier where as women are intitled to talk about periods and sex lives just fine. This is currently a very feminine dominated world...and I am not saying it is bad or good, just is what it is...

I am all for personal choice I suppose...therfore I can not debate this any further ... personally, if I ever manage to find a wife, I will prefer her to stay home, but if she makes more money and we end up with kids, I will obviously have no problem staying home and watching the kids, while I cook, clean, and spend my spare time writing novels in my study.

-Zane

Why do you assume that inflation and lower wages happened AFTER the feminist movement? Those twenty or so golden years after WW2 were an abnormality of middle class prosperity. Oh how the american dollar has fallen. The cost of living will continue to rise as a result of fewer people owning the majority of resources (damn kids playing monopoly on wall street ) along with too many damn people on the planet to begin with. There is only so much water, food, oil, land, exc. to go around.

Radical feminism (hate offshoot words given that they are generally co-opted by others to shape and support their own POVS) had nothing to do with the world economy. If anything it is often critized (as feminism is in general) for being isolated to a college educated middle class white woman's experiences in the work force. Although i will give radical femmes kudos for actually questioning the paradigm of gender and contributing to some fasinating studies on human behavior.

Even though i am a socialist; tribalism for tribalism sake has always annoyed me. It seems to me your beef isn't with feminism it is with individualism. You could as easily blame capitalism, globalization, technological advances, exc. for why it is generally no longer an option for women to stay home even if they want to. Also most men probably don't want to have to shoulder the burden of finanical responsiblity for family living expenses alone and rightly should not have too in the first place. How fair is it to the man in your fairy tale view that he alone should be forced to work for not just himself and his child but also for another capable adult who if they wanted to could find a job to help support their family?

Economists generally agree that high rates of inflation and hyperinflation are caused by an excessive growth of the money supply.
When the two income household became popular there was more of a demand for everything. Consumerism swept the country.
People were feeding their egos with things.

Like I said before, women and men are different and play different roles. We have succeeded as a species because of our ability to cooperate. Competitiveness between the sexes, such as in the work place, is not cooperative. Humans evolved as hunters and gatherers. Men hunted (worked, fought, protected) and women raised the children, picked berries (shopped) and provided nurturing in the home. What's wrong with a woman embracing her natural femininity? Being a good mother is noble. We should appreciate men who provide for us, not be jealous of them.

While the Titanic sank, who was obliged to allow the women & children priority access to the lifeboats? Why are society's toughest, dirtiest and most dangerous occupations performed by men? Men do these things so women don't have to. There is indeed a double-standard here, and both sexes get burned by it.

Women in the military is ridiculous. They should treat them just like the men there so that only real female warriors are allowed to enter and not the ones who just want benefits and a stable job. What happens to women in the military when they get pregnant?
They can't go running out on the front line with a stroller.

Magnus, I like the way you think.

Maybe it's because I see the elephant in the room too and I'm not afraid to tell people of my "delusions".

What happens to men in the military when their partners get pregnant? The can't go running out on the front line with a stroller. lol.



Women did not 'start' working because of feminism; they only started getting access to higher-paying, higher-status jobs like medicine and business because of feminism.
http://www.womeninworldhistory.com/lesson7.html
http://hubpages.com/hub/Working-Women-Its-Nothing-New
http://ocp.hul.harvard.edu/ww/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_t ... _Gold_Rush

and, of course, even those pages look mostly at the work done by *white* women. Poor women and especially women of color have *always* worked, often in hard, menial, poorly paid jobs.

Some feminists do that, so do some non-feminists.

What I find so very silly is the stereotyping of feminists and feminism by detractors thereof, as though they have no real objection to feminism and can only argue against it by pulling the stupidest examples of persons claiming to be feminists from the general cesspool of human jerks and pretend that is feminism and all feminists are somehow like that (even in cases where the idiot example is clearly not a feminist but simply a sexist cow manipulating social devices to get their way, or some twisted bitter sad sack who'd find some other band-wagon to climb on and harp at humanity from if feminism were not available). As though there is any group that does not have some idiots who either are members or claim membership thereof.

A feminist is quite simply someone who prefers equality to inequality. Either you think males and females should not be equal, or you are a feminist.


The 'necessities' has greatly increased in scope. A colour tv is part of many peoples' notion of necessity these days. In my dad's day, everyone would gather at the house of the one person in the neighbourhood with a tv because it was a luxury. Microwaves and dish-washers did not exist a few decades ago, but many people are quite convinced that these things are necessary, along with computers, internet connections, DVD players with recording hard-drive, cell-phones, the list could go on.

Only a few decades ago, people recycled clothes such that I, my sisters, my female cousins, all wore clothes our mother's/aunts had worn when they were young children. There was none of this buying of clothes every 'fashion-season' in most households. The fact is in modern households we waste so very much and consider so very many luxuries necessities, that it's little wonder the average household's consumption requires two full-time workers. Funding the necessities (as opposed to the luxuries) is something few households stick to.

I only know of one work-place where this happened. The female half-owner/boss of the company was quite happy with the pictures, and none of the female staff were offended, but one male member of staff was, and he ended up having them removed. I'm not convinced feminism played any particular role in the incident. As a feminist, the pictures did not bother me. Firstly they were in the men's room, and secondly, naked and semi-naked women are less boring than pictures of 'hot cars' or sporting 'heroes'.

Men and women are social inventions. Men in one culture can be very different to men in another culture. Some cultures have more than two genders. Genders (man/woman/boy/girl/sundry other such) are simply socially constructed roles, like serf or king.


Competitiveness has always functioned alongside cooperativeness. With all this cooperation talk, you might confuse people into thinking that in your view humans have historically been all cooperative peace and harmony.... much as you describe a certain pan species.

This is not accurate. In many cultures females hunt, in many cultures all able-bodied persons in the band hunt. Gendered division of labour is very common to human societies/cultures (perhaps one of the few true human universals), but the strictness of division (ie the extent to which there is overlap between 'mens' work' and 'womens' work') varies greatly, as does what actually constitutes mens/womens/childrens/shared work in particular societies.

I do not think there is anything wrong with embracing femininity, although I doubt many wish to be suffocated by it or by unnecessary socially constructed restriction of their life-choices simply because of it.

As for 'natural' well I do not see how we could embrace supernatural femininity, but for humans, what is feminine or masculine is culturally specific, and very much socially elaborated and constructed on such that what is socially acquired and what is biologically derived is not something that can readily be disentangled.

If you wish to appreciate a man you mooch off, and he's happy enough for that, fine and well. But not every man and every woman wish to live this way. What is wrong with you and your's doing your thing, while them and theirs retain the choice to do differently without social censor or unreasonable social barriers?
I find some of your comments seemingly contrary. On the one hand you seem to imply that hunting and gathering somehow informs us of what should happen now, yet you now seem to reject the role of females as providers, even though from all available evidence, it appears that in hunter gatherer societies, females quite consistently provide approximately half of all calories consumed (by the group) with their subsistence activities.
Might the men have been required to wait because they were viewed as protector/providers while women were viewed as virtually inter-changeable with children (right down to needing someone to tell them what to do)?
Adult females are not the only ones who suffer when sexism rules the day. Consider also that males are constrained by the same social rules, such as the example you give above. Children are also not immune from the harms. A particularly heart-breaking example of victims of sexism includes children, destructively placed with mothers (when custody is disputed) when their fathers would have served them better, and all simply because society stereotypes females and mothers as more nurturing than men.

No, they are not. The military has a huge variety of tasks that need performing, many of them in logistics, intelligence, analysis, language translation, and other such tasks for which many women would be very well suited and adept.

Sure they could, although they might look a bit silly. A lot of what the military does, does not occur on the front-line, heck for many modern militarys, there often is no front-line of any significance.

Hi LKL

Women worked before the 50's, I know. But, families weren't required to have both parents worth back in the 1950's as much as they are now. Mothers who became widowed, single mothers, and single women who preferred not to marry worked in jobs throughout US history. The early feminists like Mary Wollenstonecraft are to be greatly appreciated for being trailblazers who fought for basic rights. I don't think they worked for double standards or to try to prove we are just like men.

And an economic response - in a less developed, agrarian society, having lots of kids makes economic sense. Just give them a pair of pants and maybe some shoes, and by the time they are five, they are pulling enough weeds to make a contribution to the family. Social security, pensions? Not in agrarian societies - just have lots of kids, and they will take care of you when you are too old to work.

Last study I saw, it costs well over $250,000 to raise a kid in the US to age 18. Designer clothes, child care, orthodontic braces, sports fees, education, ... it all adds up so that each kid costs as much or more than a house. So we have moved from an economy where having lots of kids was seen as good investing, to an economy where having even one kid is seen as very expensive.

I think this economic shift made feminism possible at the same time it reduced the birth rate - women moved out of the home to university and workplace, and they needed to challenge the old system that was male dominated.

No, but they could be put on a temporary leave of absence to have the kid, then go back to service. How big a problem is it? ...



What happens to men in the military who break their legs or get shot? Why did the military accept them if they are human and fallible and 100% of them do not fulfill their term of duty? We robots demand common sense regulations to eliminate inefficient carbon-based labor units.

And that's the real Population Control.


They could serve as bigger shields.



[/dark humor]

I'm sorry, but I can't accept a lecture on gender roles from a female who goes by 'Magnus' - which in Scandinavia, is always a name for males. In fact, up until this post, I assumed you were a male and that your avatar was pinup art. Why is your screen name Magnus? Why did you reject all possible feminine and neutral names that were available?


kidding.



Actually, I think you have a glamorized and distorted economic view of the past. Women have always worked, and typically, for as many or more hours than men. 100 years ago, they worked in the house as generalists, growing and preparing food, producing clothing, caring for children, educating them, etc. Today, most women work in a specialized activity outside the home, and then they buy prepared food and pre-stitched clothing while much child care and education is out-sourced.

The late 1940s and 1950s were a unique decade; in addition to an explosion of technology, the United States was the only large country with a manufacturing base that was not largely destroyed by the second world war. So Americans had a large increase in standard of living. Women in other western countries were working in the 1950s, when there were jobs.

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I would never publish a sci/fi book fantasy book under a female name. If you want to know more personal information about me please pm me.

A pregnant man should not be in the military either. The first two years of a baby's life should be spent with its mother.
These are crucial stages of human development. If you don't see an anatomical difference between males and females then I just don't know what else to say.

Children worked in factories until women and child welfare campaigns made it illegal in the late-1800s. And then people got worried about all the children whose mothers were at work, and put pressure on women to return home, which is partly why the numbers of women in work dropped in the last 40 years of the 19th century, and the first 10-15 years of the 20th.

Women's rights encouraged women to want to do other things apart from childbearing and rearing. It taught women to think that they could do ( many of ) the same things as men.

Until they learned that lesson, believed it, women were highly unlikely to reduce the number of children they had to just 1 or 2, because as far as they knew there was nothing else they could do. Only when women had understood that they could have careers like men, that they could enter that world seriously, did it make sense for them to cut back on childbearing.

NB. Only 35% of women, a quarter of married women, were working outside the home in 1956.
.

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