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mitharatowen
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11 Feb 2009, 5:14 pm

Thanks Bella.

Anyway I don't want to get involved with long complicated debates since there is no purpose nor is it my objective (or even within my power) to change your mind. I came to this thread to say only that the bible is not responsible for the disgusting acts commited by 'Christians.' It instead very clearly teaches against such things and people's actions are due to ignorance. That's all. Now I will take my leave from this thread.

Thanks :D



Dussel
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11 Feb 2009, 5:20 pm

mitharatowen wrote:
No one needs to disregard anything. The bible is harmonious, it does not contradict itself.


Yes? Oh .. than just tell me where spend Jesus - according to the gospel - the night before the Sermon of Montain and what was the first point to make in this sermon? How Judas died?

mitharatowen wrote:
Except that they specifically say the Law? ... ?


For example the nice rule that it is allow to sell the daughter into slavery (Exodus 21, 7).

mitharatowen wrote:
Well I believe your translation quoted is a little bit off in that rendering, mine says "nor will they ever turn back" which makes it sound a lot more like a personal choice which makes much more sense in the context.


We do not know the contens of the new testament. The scientific literature is full of investigation regariding the variation in the Greek text, which must be on its own either an addition or a translation from Aramanic. The current theory is that the gospels are the result of editing compiling of older sources which are lost. In so far the incosistence of the gospel are no big surprise.



greenblue
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11 Feb 2009, 5:57 pm

mitharatowen wrote:
Notice I said Christians. What you quoted is all Old Testimate which was fufilled or 'finished,' as it were, when Jesus came/died. Christians are not under the Mosaic Law.

You're right, the OT, which is part of the Bible, tells people to kill other people, however it does it to the jews and not to the christians, the issue is that the same God of the OT is suppose to be of the NT, who is the one who mandated to kill.

mitharatowen wrote:
I did not dismiss the Old Testemant. I mearly stated that Christians are not obligated to follow the Mosaic Law Covenent since Jesus fufilled it and quoted references to prove such.

Well, if the NT states that Christians don't have to follow mosaic law anymore, that could have been, and it was, taken as actually dismissing or corrupting the OT, and I do wonder wether or not the jews were actually right about rejecting the entire NT as part of the canon.

Sand wrote:
Where do you get the authority to pick and choose what parts of the old testament are delectable and which are garbage?

well, that's a good question actually, considering different interpretations within different denominations.


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Last edited by greenblue on 11 Feb 2009, 6:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.

BellaDonna
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11 Feb 2009, 5:59 pm

This thread is about ME becoming a christian.



Haliphron
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11 Feb 2009, 6:20 pm

BellaDonna wrote:
This thread is about ME becoming a christian.


Exactly WHAT sort of christian?



BellaDonna
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11 Feb 2009, 6:22 pm

Haliphron wrote:
BellaDonna wrote:
This thread is about ME becoming a christian.


Exactly WHAT sort of christian?


Jesus saving me because he died on the cross for ME.



Haliphron
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11 Feb 2009, 6:25 pm

BellaDonna wrote:
Haliphron wrote:
BellaDonna wrote:
This thread is about ME becoming a christian.


Exactly WHAT sort of christian?


Jesus saving me because he died on the cross for ME.


Well then, are you catholic, protestant, or orthodox?
If you are protestant are you sectarian or non-sectarian("Born Again")?
Might I add, it was NOT you who started this thread so how can you claim that its about YOU specifically? :?



BellaDonna
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11 Feb 2009, 6:26 pm

I am neithier. I refuse to be labelled. I am just christian.



Haliphron
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11 Feb 2009, 6:27 pm

BellaDonna wrote:
I am neithier. I refuse to be labelled. I am just christian.



Is the pope the Vicar of Christ?



BellaDonna
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11 Feb 2009, 6:28 pm

Haliphron wrote:
BellaDonna wrote:
I am neithier. I refuse to be labelled. I am just christian.



Is the pope the Vicar of Christ?


I am not into catholicism.



Haliphron
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11 Feb 2009, 6:34 pm

BellaDonna wrote:
Haliphron wrote:
BellaDonna wrote:
I am neithier. I refuse to be labelled. I am just christian.



Is the pope the Vicar of Christ?


I am not into catholicism.


Well then I have my answer :D . I guess you're a nonsectarian protestant. If you were orthodox Im sure you'd say so.



BellaDonna
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11 Feb 2009, 6:39 pm

Haliphron wrote:
BellaDonna wrote:
Haliphron wrote:
BellaDonna wrote:
I am neithier. I refuse to be labelled. I am just christian.



Is the pope the Vicar of Christ?


I am not into catholicism.


Well then I have my answer :D . I guess you're a nonsectarian protestant. If you were orthodox Im sure you'd say so.


I am not into religion. I don't understand anything about it. Except most of them are cults. i am not protestant. I am not orthodox. I just want to be born again christian. :)



psych
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11 Feb 2009, 6:44 pm

the bicycle metaphor starts around 5:30 (part one).

i LOL'd :lol:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Chg9eMEvCo&feature=PlayList&p=47D8D3B652AD48BF&playnext=1&index=3[/youtube]



audiobyrne
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11 Feb 2009, 7:19 pm

I loled. At the start of the bicycle thing, the first thing I thought of was about the Koran. That its meaning and "spirit" comes alive when it is read orally...and in Arabic. That it isn't really supposed to be translated or read as one reads a novel.

Everything goes back to the Baha'is for me. Some of the main points of the Faith are those of education and the "independent investigation of the truth." They have education programs set up all over the world, especially in developing countries, not to spread the Faith(as we're not allowed to proselytize), but to rid the world of the corruptibility that comes from not having an education. They have a database of every major spiritual text available for free. Also, there's no clergy or even any sort of position that could lead to corruption in the Faith.


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JoJerome
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11 Feb 2009, 9:23 pm

mitharatowen wrote:
No one needs to disregard anything. The bible is harmonious, it does not contradict itself.


Perhaps we need to define 'contradiction.' For instance, if I have a non-christian holy text which says to both love your parents and hate your parents, is that a contradiction?

Quote:
JoJerome wrote:
- None of the cited passages distinguish our current, cannon old testament which was assembled centuries later, from the law/scriptures that did not make it into the OT.

Such as?


To name a few,
- The books of Enoch
- The Testament of Abraham
- Judith
- Susannah
- Esther - excluded passages
- Psalm 151 - excluded passages

Quote:
JoJerome wrote:
- According to Jesus, only the apostles can know the meaning of his words. The rest of us are intentionally being deluded specifically so we will not be forgiven/saved:
Jesus told His apostles, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!" - Mark 4:11-12

Well I believe your translation quoted is a little bit off in that rendering, mine says "nor will they ever turn back" which makes it sound a lot more like a personal choice which makes much more sense in the context. ...


In other words, the translation I'm reading and the translation you're reading ... contradict each other.

And unless we are to have this discussion in Greek, neither of us is reading the original, and presumably 'correct' translation.



Dussel
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11 Feb 2009, 10:27 pm

BellaDonna wrote:
Jesus saving me because he died on the cross for ME.


How a man under reign of Tiberius could know anything about you (or me)? And so how he could die for you or me?