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Quality of life in a communist society

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Orwell
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31 May 2009, 5:40 pm

MikeH106 wrote:
If by advancing a view you include putting forth the possibility that it might be true, then no, you haven't strawmanned me, though you disguised your words to make it appear that you did.

You equivocate too much.

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In regard to genetic adaptation, however, I will make one remark: In a society in which certain traits are valued, such as not being lazy, the ability to endure work, or high physical resilience, the people with those traits stand a greater chance of reproducing than the people who don't have them. Over time, we may imagine that they will become more and more suited to a change in ideals and possibly even enjoy them more than their old ideals.

This is not necessarily true, and I am highly skeptical of the idea that such adaptation would extend to political ideals.


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MikeH106
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01 Jun 2009, 10:31 am

Orwell wrote:
You equivocate too much.


No, I just admitted I was wrong after I fell into your scheming little trap. Either way, I don't feel it's that pertinent to the discussion. I just want everyone to be clear about what a straw man fallacy is.


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Orwell
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01 Jun 2009, 12:20 pm

I wasn't scheming, and I didn't lay any traps. I just called you out when you pointed at nonexistent fallacies. Accusing anyone who disagrees with or questions you of committing a fallacy seems to be a habit of yours. If it wasn't pertinent to the discussion, you shouldn't have brought it up.

I'm still not sure where you're going with the whole genetic adaptation bit.


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01 Jun 2009, 12:52 pm

MikeH106 wrote:
Why wouldn't China grant them that free speech? What would they fear from their workers?



They, like some extremist religious factions, are afraid of change. If they allow people to criticise them, then they will have to start to take the consequences of their actions like in a democratic state. That is why they settle for economic freedom and nothing more. At least most Chinese people are not locked inside the borders of the state, like with North Korea - the Chinese KNOW there is a better world outside and they are free to move if they want to (or rather can afford it).

Workers will start to demand rights and privileges that are incompatible with communism. That is why they shot people at Tienanmen square, they just were not ready to reform the country like the Russians did.


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TitusLucretiusCarus
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01 Jun 2009, 5:13 pm

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Workers will start to demand rights and privileges that are incompatible with communism. That is why they shot people at Tienanmen square, they just were not ready to reform the country like the Russians did.


I'm pretty sure it was after Tienanmen that the massive influx of western investment really kicked off, to be very cynical (me I mean, to view it cynically) it was a sort of a "your money is safe with us" kind of message, politicos make the usual noises about human rights then go right ahead and plough the money in. Cannot for the life of me remember who it was (Aussie PM??) but he absolutely denounced every aspect of the Tienanmen violence....then sets up a company handling investments in China. Go figure.

Genetic adaptation though...? :scratch: Sure, I've come across ideas about how the metaphysical (ideas etc) can be passed genetically (this is a ridiulously crude summation I'm making, but I've come across it somehwere)

If you're happy to wait till star date 89012 AD, might just start seeing something then. Along with Kevin Costner's gills.