who supports marijuana rights?

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like the book of Genesis says, "God gave every herb-bearing seed for the service of man."

Personal resposibility is central to the issue.

It is better to ignore such "reefer madness" stories than it is to engage anyone in discussion about them. I cannot give you a sense of proportion if your teachers and your upbringing have failed to do so. I can talk until I am blue in the face about how much less likely someone is to have an accident while high on marijuana, and no matter how often I might get someone to admit that it is true, it somehow still won't make a difference. You will see the weed as a deadly threat and that is it, no matter how upside down such a perception is, or maybe because of how upside down the perception is.

Very well said, and that is the reason I chose to ignore the post as well. There is no point in arguing with people who've made up their minds and shut them down.

The latest studies (as well as the older surpressed ones!) suggest cannabis has an mild anti-tumour effect. Ill say that again;

cannabis can help CURE certain types of cancer

If its smoked, then its likely that carcinogenic compounds will be released, as with ANY plant material that undergoes incmplete combustion. But those toxins are not present by nature, unlike tobacco which can cause cancer anyway even if you just chew it.

And thats a big 'if' (its smoked) - it can be vapourized, eaten or made into spray. For arthiritis it can even be made into a topical cream, which will not cause mental side-effects.

its not a "reefer madness" story, its a fact. The law states that if you are under the influence of mind altering drugs (legal or illegal) or alchol you shoudnt drive. Peroid. The fact is that "mind altering" substances, both illeagal and legal, DO affect judgement and DO affect reaction time. Drinking, smoking weed, doing narcotics, even some cold meds that you get a the store with out a percp. can have that effect. Im not saying that stories like that one (that happened in MY fire dist) should be the motivation for outlawing weed, it was an example of how there are Victiums.

Personal responsibility should play a role, but many people are not responsible and that is why we have DWI (Driving while intoxicated (drugs or alch.) laws. People think they can drive when in fact they are too drunk or stoned to. That call istn the only one that has happened in my rural district invlovinf drugs or alch. I have been on several fatalities that were the result of some one being chemically impared. I have also been on many that although no one died, some one was injured seriously. my humble, and rural district runs about 200 calls a year. About 1/3 (give or take) are MVAs (car wrecks), and of those 1/4 of the drivers are "impared" enough that we can determine that with out much thought. Of the other 60 or so wrecks we run a year, they arent impared or arent enough for us to tell. So thats 15 wrecks a year because someone is impared. that isnt much, but if all 40 fire departments in the county ran that (and others run 10-15 times that many calls) thats over 600 wrecks a year in the county. there are 42 counties in SC. if of those 600 wrecks just 1/8th were people that were intoxicated (drugs or alcl) we are looking at 75 accidents a year. now assume that all 42 counties have that same number and the state is looking at 3150 wrecks a year that involve DWI.
it costs tax payers to clean up after wrecks, and prosicute the offenders. It costes insurance companies millions, and it costs the rest of us in both lives lost and people injured.
in 2004 the state of South Carolina, alone had 1046 traffic fatalities. The US in the same year was 42,636 Thats all causes.

Ill find and post all the SC stats later. But thats just one way of looking at the picture. there are others.

Yes, I realize that every little thing that may injure someone or cost money for the taxpayers or big business is adequate cause to set aside human rights.

then what, beyond medicinal reasons, are the arguments for the legalization of pot?

Someone should be forced to provide much better cause for pot to be illegal. The reasons given aren't good enough to justify taking away the freedoms that have been taken away or the violence against citizens. Some pay lip service to the idea that there is no good reason to take our freedoms away, but they just go right around that. There may indeed may be no right to smoke marijuana, but telling us that we aren't allowed to choose to do this violates our right to privacy, our right to choose the medications or nutrition that we use, the right of freedom of choice, the right of freedom of association, and a right that we should have, the right to fair and rational governance.

Did you see what I said about heating fuel? Just the seeds can produce over a thousand gallons, honest-to-god gallons of fuel per acre, largely dependent on rainfall. This is immediately suitable for diesel engines and since it is one of the better lubricants around, the diesel engines will require neither sulfur nor sulfur substitute to run. It is also good for heating fuel, and heating bills are through the roof during one of the warmest winters on record. Processing the seeds into oil doesn't even require tools made of steel. It requires next to no energy to produce fuel from hempseeds, for a large net gain in usable energy.

The war against drugs isn't worth a bucket of spit in the first place, and it is worse than useless. It certainly isn't worth letting even one person freeze to death in the winter because he can't afford to pay to heat his run-down trailer. It also isn't worth bankrupting a lot of people who could otherwise keep up with their bills working whatever jobs they can find. What's good for big oil is not good for America. It is a disaster, as is the drug war.

quite simply: because i want to.

(& what Remnant said!)

Queerpuppy, it would take some hard evidence to convince me that anyone smoked themselves to a psychosis. It seems more likely that they used it to try to medicate for a mental state that was already disintegrating on a one-way trip and they finally just fell apart.

It seems to be the rule that people who use the stuff for a while use less of other drugs and then stop using much of any kind of drugs altogether after a while.

There has been a double standard in effect. At least two studies that I have read of showed that marijuana use does not compromise driving ability. It would seem that a lot of people simply assume that if someone was stoned, that caused the accident. Because there was such a strong lobby for liquor, it was actually required that it be proven that drunken driving makes people more likely to have accidents. Certainly there is no reason not to do exhaustive testing to prove this one way or the other.

In any case, I think it's time to stand by civil rights on a lot of issues. We have the right to choose our herbal medicine and we have the right to heat our homes and grow our own fuel.

I get defensive about perceived threats (impersonal as laws are) to my sense of fairness. Example is extremely unbalanced ways society handles drugs, though similar conflicts abound in dealing with sex, dying-intense common situations that different people experience differently.
It's the all-or-nothing type of relationship. Either do it all the time, or never at all. Indulge in A B C to excess, but don't use X Y Z even once. Substance C is okay but Substance Z is bad, end of debate, no exceptions/qualifiers/disclaimers/shades of grey taken into account. Humans want things to be simpler than they are, so we often prefer black & white thinking-sacrificing accuracy for manageability. When we have a strong reaction to a thing it's not conducive to balanced assessment, we go with the easier-to-make-decisions response of YES or NO. None of this teaches moderation, how to have healthy involvement, compromise, negotiation. Instead it perpetuates the perfectionistic-thinking of "If it's not 'exactly right', then it's worthless". Accepting all our individuality & quirks & diversity isn't done by polarizing.
Frequently I have the sort of mentality described above (on other subjects), of course. Pointing out what I see in others yet I'm probably the same way.
Wrote all that because directly addressing this issue was too stressful for me, despite intending to actually say something...
I don't drive (nor have I children) & no one relies on me to have my wits about me, so where's my free pass for pot possession ? I'm not a happier or more functional person without my "crutches", know myself well enough. My problems have always been reality-based, not induced by my recreational selections. It ought to be my right to use the chemicals that help me get through another day. Should be allowed to comfort myself, to administer what works as pain-relief for me, without being a criminal !

Ladyfireater: I'm sorry but there is faulty logic in the notion that pot should be illegal because sometimes people smoke it and sometimes they get in cars and sometimes other people get killed.

And your contention that you could sit next to someone smoking pot and your urine would show up as dirty really doesn't seem possible at all. Where did you get that notion? That sounds like conservative scare-tactic rhetoric, to me. I don't smoke pot, but that doesn't mean I remove myself from the premises if someone next to me does. And my job requires a piss-test too. Are you saying that pot should be illegal because you could lose your job if someone next to you is smoking?

I am surprised that you have not seen the medical benefits of pot in your line of work. Have you not seen the wasted AIDS patients who can only eat after they've smoked? Or people dying of terminal cancer whose pain is relieved by pot or who are having chemotherapy and can only eat after smoking. Have you not seen the people with MS able to move their hands without shaking and pain after they've smoked? Have you not seen people with intractable nausea and vomiting get better? You don't think those people have a right to a natural medicine they can grow themselves? If you got cancer and pot helped your pain and appetite, wouldn't you at least want the option of being able to decide if you wanted that or a fentanyl patch (which, by the way, someone could put on and then go drive and kill someone because they are impaired)

Or how about all those people who used to be alcoholics but stopped drinking, and now just use a little weed. Wouldn't you agree that the world is a better place if more people smoked weed instead of drinking? Not that I do either, mind you, but I believe people should be allowed the choice.

that was just ONE aspect. there others.

I have had several dr's tell me this. They give a pee test at a neighboring firestation for tobacco. The dr "expects" a set percentage in even non smokers as they are exposed to tobacco in public places. The lab people, and the dr told me the same holds true for pot. I havent personally put that to the test, but several firefighters in another fire dist have. They fought a fire (a barn) that contained large quainties of pot. They had to have pee tests done after the fact and then again a couple months later to ensure that it was documented that they were exposed to the substance and that the levels were not high in later tests as they were in the first one after the fire. I have NO idea how much does show up in a pee test. They never said. One of those FF that was tested after that fire was my Bro In law. So Im fairly familar with that.

I never said that there werent benifits if PERSCRIBED by a doctor. there are. its just that the stuff shouldnt be as redialy availble as ciggerettes or beer. And in my line of work, I have never had a P/T that was perscribed pot. Not once. And if a person is taking ANY medicine that impares their judgment or reactions they SHOULD NOT BE DRIVING! that goes for overthe counter stuff, recreational drugs, perscribed drugs, etc.....

I dont agree with that, as the mind latering effects are the same, and the health benifits do not out weigh the risks to the general population, FOR the general population. If a person is terminal, or has glaucoma, or what ever and that is the only thing that really helps them, perscribe it. But others will make the same type arguments about beer or wine or what ever.

In my mind there is a big difference between recreational use of marijuana and medicinal/commercial use. I have heard of the medicinal effects of marijuana and see nothing wrong with marijuana used as a medicine so long as it is a controlled substance. I also see nothing wrong with using marijuana as a fuel so long as it does not produce the drug marijuana. It would also have to be a controlled substance. The recreational drug marijuana is something to be fought in my opinion, it is harmful to the body causing cancer and the like, and the use of chemicals to adjust human conditions is something that I tend to oppose unless it is for medical purposes and overseen by doctors. I don't give a darn about civil rights if I think that something would be bad for society. Doping people to keep them content is not something I would support, if happiness is the only virtue why not just give them orgies and soma? <<(reference to Brave New World) Yeah, I know, some of my points may be sort of off but hopefully a few are on target.

The same ones that apply to beer and liquor.

In our society, we are supposed to be free in choice, to do as we will, unless it does harm to others. This is what most of our law is based on, and hence the DWI/DUI laws.

If someone wants to grow a plant and smoke it that's their business.
If someone wants to grow a plant and make beer with it that's their business.

Cigarettes, too, though they are awful for you, I do not believe should be illegal.

The key is education, imho.

remnant,

I didnt argue that there werent useful applications for the plant. But if it doesnt impare ones ability to drive, then why are there people in jail right now for smoking pot and driving under the CHARGE of "driving while under the influence"? Why do they do a Pee test for drugs, pot included, if you are in an accident and thought to be impared? Why does the Dep. of Transportation require a pee test for drugs, pot included, if you are to hold a CDL (commercial driver s licence)? Why arent there lawyers lined up with evidence to refute their convicted clients impartement while smoking pot and driving?

Pot DOES alter ones ability to make clear judgements, and it DOES slow reaction time. Other LEGAL drugs do too. And if you are taking them and driving and cause an accident you'll go to jail as well.

We DO NOT have the freedom to decide everything, no matter how "free" the country is precieved to be. I do not have the freedom to go and get Oxycoton, or Demaral, or any other narcotic prescribed by a dr if I just want to mellow out. I dont have the freedom to buy a substance like a birth-controll pill with out a perscription either, and that doesnt alter my mind.... I cant even get paragoric (contains opimum) for diaharrea like I used to (under the brand name Donagel PG) because people abused it. They dont even perscribe it in the US even. So I have to settle with a less effective over the counter drug that will constipate the heck outta me if I take it. (one extreme or the other....) We have the freedom to choose many things, but the controlled substances are not one of them.

As far as using pot as a fuel source, that is a cool idea. What other seeds that we get oil from could be used like that?

As far as freeedoms being taken away and the like, some things are outlawed for the safety of society as a whole. You or I may have the judgment skills and what not to handle a substance with care, however, the majority of the citizens have shown they do not. (with this and other substances). That is why we spend so much money on enforcing the laws.

The refrence to auto accidents is again just one of the arguments aginst legalizing pot. I have no problem with applications in medicine, if they are legitimate. Right now we cant even get over the counter cold medicine with out asking the pharmisist because people were abusing it. (making meth, etc). I dont see them legalizing pot anytime soon....