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MissConstrue
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11 Jun 2009, 8:33 am

Love scientology, just got some more dianetic testing to do and then I'm in.

There's a lot of stuff I'm not suppose to know yet, at least not now.


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ikorack
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11 Jun 2009, 8:48 am

Henriksson wrote:
ikorack wrote:
Henriksson wrote:
Why?


Because it can't be proved or disproved.

But neither can Scientology...


Isn't that what where talking about.



MattShizzle
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11 Jun 2009, 8:58 am

It's a cult or a pyramid scheme - what kind of religion doesn't tell you what it's about until you pay a certain ammount?
L Ron Hubbard actually said at a SF convention a few years before he started it "The fastest way to get rich these days is to start your own religion."



Henriksson
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11 Jun 2009, 8:59 am

ikorack wrote:
Henriksson wrote:
ikorack wrote:
Henriksson wrote:
Why?


Because it can't be proved or disproved.

But neither can Scientology...


Isn't that what where talking about.

OK, so you are using special pleading?


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ikorack
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11 Jun 2009, 9:13 am

Henriksson wrote:
ikorack wrote:
Henriksson wrote:
ikorack wrote:
Henriksson wrote:
Why?


Because it can't be proved or disproved.

But neither can Scientology...


Isn't that what where talking about.

OK, so you are using special pleading?


No. Why would you think that?



Henriksson
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11 Jun 2009, 9:18 am

ikorack wrote:
Henriksson wrote:
ikorack wrote:
Henriksson wrote:
ikorack wrote:
Henriksson wrote:
Why?


Because it can't be proved or disproved.

But neither can Scientology...


Isn't that what where talking about.

OK, so you are using special pleading?


No. Why would you think that?

Sarcastic Henriksson wrote:
Scientology cannot be proved or disproved either way so Scientology makes as much sense as Atheism.

Quote:
Normally i would agree with this

Henriksson wrote:
Why?

ikorack wrote:
Because it can't be proved or disproved.

So my conclusion is that you use special pleading.


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Michjo
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11 Jun 2009, 11:38 am

Quote:
Normally i would agree with this but there religion is basicly a science fiction novel writen by a guy whole has been said to look at religeon as a money making scheme multiple times.

Islam taxed it's members in the past, and taxed non-members even more so. Christianity was supported by tithing, something the mormon church still does. I don't see how any religion can be claimed to be any less of a money making scheme than another.

I find the claims made in scientology just as incredulous as the claims made in pretty much any other religion, and each holy book sounds as much a fiction as the next.



cognito
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11 Jun 2009, 11:50 am

Michjo wrote:
Quote:
Normally i would agree with this but there religion is basicly a science fiction novel writen by a guy whole has been said to look at religeon as a money making scheme multiple times.

Islam taxed it's members in the past, and taxed non-members even more so. Christianity was supported by tithing, something the mormon church still does. I don't see how any religion can be claimed to be any less of a money making scheme than another.

I find the claims made in scientology just as incredulous as the claims made in pretty much any other religion, and each holy book sounds as much a fiction as the next.

okay, reality check, the book, dianetics, was meant to be a pyschology self help book but the APA said hold on Hubbard, you aren't a psychitrist, hell, you never got a real degree from a college! Also, its total bunk and if you publish it, then you are getting sued and going to jail. Hubbard got total butthurt and renamed it a religious text and being a total narcissistic bastard, he said Psychology was evil because it called him out. Also, to even see if they want you, you have to shell out $2000 just to hold a volt meter while they interrogate you about your deepest secrets, which are used against you if you try to leave.
For moar, visit
why we protest
Xenu.net
ex scientology kids


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monty
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11 Jun 2009, 11:57 am

Michjo wrote:
Quote:
Normally i would agree with this but there religion is basicly a science fiction novel writen by a guy whole has been said to look at religeon as a money making scheme multiple times.

Islam taxed it's members in the past, and taxed non-members even more so. Christianity was supported by tithing, something the mormon church still does. I don't see how any religion can be claimed to be any less of a money making scheme than another.



It really depends on what the money is used for - if it goes for helping orphans and widows and helping people whose house burned down or providing marriage counseling, and if the religious leaders live modestly, then it isn't a money making scheme - I would call that charity and community development. But too often, the religious leaders siphon off the funds for personal gain.



cognito
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11 Jun 2009, 12:00 pm

monty wrote:
Michjo wrote:
Quote:
Normally i would agree with this but there religion is basicly a science fiction novel writen by a guy whole has been said to look at religeon as a money making scheme multiple times.

Islam taxed it's members in the past, and taxed non-members even more so. Christianity was supported by tithing, something the mormon church still does. I don't see how any religion can be claimed to be any less of a money making scheme than another.



It really depends on what the money is used for - if it goes for helping orphans and widows and helping people whose house burned down or providing marriage counseling, and if the religious leaders live modestly, then it isn't a money making scheme - I would call that charity and community development. But too often, the religious leaders siphon off the funds for personal gain.

scientology has no:
homeless shelters
soup kitchens
battered women shelters
orphanges
etc
so the money is going straight into their pockets


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MattShizzle
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11 Jun 2009, 12:28 pm

As critical of Christianity as I am, I never heard of a Christian church requiring you to pay to belong - or not teaching members everything until they shell out big bucks.



Michjo
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11 Jun 2009, 1:29 pm

Quote:
As critical of Christianity as I am, I never heard of a Christian church requiring you to pay to belong - or not teaching members everything until they shell out big bucks.

Churches are tax-exempt in many countries, and they have significant income. Just because some religions have changed their money-generation to better alternative's, it doesn't mean they never required money from their communities in the past.

Quote:
okay, reality check, the book, dianetics, was meant to be a pyschology self help book but the APA said hold on Hubbard, you aren't a psychitrist, hell, you never got a real degree from a college! Also, its total bunk and if you publish it, then you are getting sued and going to jail. Hubbard got total butthurt and renamed it a religious text and being a total narcissistic bastard, he said Psychology was evil because it called him out. Also, to even see if they want you, you have to shell out $2000 just to hold a volt meter while they interrogate you about your deepest secrets, which are used against you if you try to leave.

I'm not denying it's a bunch of crap, i'm just saying that from an agnostic's point of veiw, the rest of them are also complete crap. People clearly get something out of scientology, which is what religion is all about right?



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11 Jun 2009, 1:51 pm

They also bully people through lawsuits and harassment who criticize/investigate them. Especially former members.



monty
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11 Jun 2009, 2:03 pm

cognito wrote:
monty wrote:
Michjo wrote:
Quote:
Normally i would agree with this but there religion is basicly a science fiction novel writen by a guy whole has been said to look at religeon as a money making scheme multiple times.

Islam taxed it's members in the past, and taxed non-members even more so. Christianity was supported by tithing, something the mormon church still does. I don't see how any religion can be claimed to be any less of a money making scheme than another.



It really depends on what the money is used for - if it goes for helping orphans and widows and helping people whose house burned down or providing marriage counseling, and if the religious leaders live modestly, then it isn't a money making scheme - I would call that charity and community development. But too often, the religious leaders siphon off the funds for personal gain.

scientology has no:
homeless shelters
soup kitchens
battered women shelters
orphanges
etc
so the money is going straight into their pockets


Sure - I am not defending Scientology in any way - my point of disagreement was with the idea that every Christian/Jewish/Islamic (or other religious group) are only a money making conspiracy. Some are, some aren't.



cognito
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11 Jun 2009, 2:24 pm

Michjo wrote:
Quote:
As critical of Christianity as I am, I never heard of a Christian church requiring you to pay to belong - or not teaching members everything until they shell out big bucks.

Churches are tax-exempt in many countries, and they have significant income. Just because some religions have changed their money-generation to better alternative's, it doesn't mean they never required money from their communities in the past.

Quote:
okay, reality check, the book, dianetics, was meant to be a pyschology self help book but the APA said hold on Hubbard, you aren't a psychitrist, hell, you never got a real degree from a college! Also, its total bunk and if you publish it, then you are getting sued and going to jail. Hubbard got total butthurt and renamed it a religious text and being a total narcissistic bastard, he said Psychology was evil because it called him out. Also, to even see if they want you, you have to shell out $2000 just to hold a volt meter while they interrogate you about your deepest secrets, which are used against you if you try to leave.

I'm not denying it's a bunch of crap, i'm just saying that from an agnostic's point of veiw, the rest of them are also complete crap. People clearly get something out of scientology, which is what religion is all about right?

I see a diference, religions claim morality, like the christains and are not intent on money, CO$ is only about money, and harasses anymore who threatens their cash flow.


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Michjo
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11 Jun 2009, 3:02 pm

Quote:
I see a diference, religions claim morality, like the christains and are not intent on money, CO$ is only about money, and harasses anymore who threatens their cash flow.

You mean like the morality of the crusades? I'm not intending to attack religion as a whole, or personal religion here. If someone gets something out of believing in a higher power, if their experience in life is improved, then i encourage people to explore themselves spiritually. But organised religion is always about money or power.

Quote:
Sure - I am not defending Scientology in any way - my point of disagreement was with the idea that every Christian/Jewish/Islamic (or other religious group) are only a money making conspiracy. Some are, some aren't.

It depends on the individuals involved, there are money making schemes in each religion, there are also altruistic people helping orphans in each religion.

My one and only real critisism of scientology would be their crusade against medications used in mental health, since this appears to be an all emcompassing belief of the church, and it negatively impacts peoples lives (Not to mention is shows a horrible lack of insight).