gay being a choice.

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People don't have a choice about their natural instincts, but they do about what they do in response to them. But I think it's wrong to ask/expect people to go against an instinct as fundamental and personal as orientation. And when people do try to repress or resist their natural insincts it seems to understandably mess them up. It's like saying, "people have a choice to eat only rocks and wire." I mean, sure, but that's unhealthy and tortuous, so why ask anyone to do that??

how people react to their instincts is a choice

but the underlying instinct is not a choice

It's not natural for two males to produce an offspring, and it's not natural for two males to seek out a surrogate mother to have their own child. Not that i disagree with homosexual couples having children, my point being... don't use nature to justify someones actions, it never ends well.

LOL

If something occurs naturally, then it is natural. What would be unnatural would be for a gay man to force himself to be with women, therefore going against his natural predisposition towards men.

The attraction occurs naturally (I am sure it is biological, probably related to the hormonal environment in the womb), therefore it is natural for a gay man to want to be with another man.

Of course two men (or two women) can't produce children together (biologically). But that's not what I was saying.


I also wanna add that I really dn't get why people keep repeating that the behaviour is a choice (ie you don't choose to be attracted to someone, but you choose the "gay lifestyle"). Isn't that obvious? No one is denying that. iBeing gay isn't an action or behaviour though.

And it's not natural for some women to be infertile, and it's not natural that some hetero couples don't want kids, and it's not natural that some couples adopt....

Which is a totally natural consequence of having the prostate stimulated in many men, and you're right, that has nothing at all to do with their sexuality. Sadly, a fair proportion of prostate cancer deaths are down to guys not going for an exam because they're so scared of even the idea of another guy sticking a finger up there. OT maybe, but needs saying.

Anyway. The way I see it? I'm a straight woman, I've known I fancy guys from my teens, I've never been sexually or romantically attracted to a woman, and I don't believe, in my case, I could choose to be any other way. Most of the gay or lesbian folks I've known would say the same kind of thing applied to them. I do know people who identify as bisexual, and who've been with partners of different genders at different times in their lives, but they generally see that as less of a 'choice' than as the fact that the person they fell in love with happened, at the time, to be a man or a woman. I do think sexual desire and gender are both along a continuum, and that it's more complicated than a lot of people make out. But I don't think, where sexuality is concerned, you can just wake up one morning and decide to be a certain way, whatever way that is.

And as for having the instincts but choosing not to act according to them...I've heard a fair few stories of guys in previous generations who, on realizing they were gay, made themselves find a woman, get married and have kids and try to be 'normal'. (My mother, who was of that generation, seriously suggested this course of action when her godson came out. She was disgusted his parents didn't disown him.) Virtually every single time, the charade got uncovered one way or another. Either the guy ran off with a boyfriend in middle age, or one of the kids found his stash of gay porn, or he hid it until he died but then a stranger turned up at the funeral...I fail to see how that's kinder or fairer to anyone involved than being honest about your sexuality from the start. Trying to hide something that fundamental about yourself never works well.

No, but you seemed to be implying that because something is natural it is right. I believe there is nothing wrong with homosexuals or homosexual partnerships, i believe they should be allowed to marry and adopt, but using nature as a justification doesn't work. People should decide using their own minds, not listening to some guy who wears a funny hat, or some quack scientist talking about animals that are slightly related to us.


The structure and rhythmn of your statement leads me to believe it's a counter-arguement. Although it only seems to be agreeing and highlighting my original point.


The original question was ambiguous and did not state exactly what it was asking for.


If someone was diagnostically shown to have low testosterone at birth, would you support giving them testosterone supplements? At which point would it become a disease?


Hmmm, you mean how i have to prevent myself from hand-flapping in public? yeah i think i know what it's like...

^ I don't think there's anything confusing about that question. It's asking if being gey is a choice. Not if having gay sex is a choice.

I'm not suggesting that just because something is natural it is ok. I was simply saying that homosexuality occurs naturally, therefore it's not a choice someone makes.

I beg to differ, its natural to act on one's feelings, and its usally right, I have the urge to do sexual things with another male, sex drive is one of the natural and basic urges

I don't know but one thing about my opinion is for sure - whether it's a choice or not, homophobia is wrong either way. And as far as natural and unnatural goes, studies of other animals have shown some to not be straight, and I don't know of anyone other than a human being homophobic. With humans there's homophobia and we're overpopulating and destroying the planet - perhaps our homophobia is what's unnatural, and perhaps our homophobia has led to our overpopulation. For the record I'm bi. Dealing with being in the closet and whether or not to come out when you're autistic, is "interesting" shall we say.

I have the urge to do sexual things with my neighbour, but she doesn't want me to, so I don't

Good point...

Yes, a good point. I have occasional attractions to guys, and it has nothing to do with any conscious thinking; the person is there and the feelings just happen. Sometimes the person is male and sometimes female, but I don't have a choice about who those feelings arise with. It's no one's right to tell me I should let certain attractions/people go because they feel differently.

Acting straight is a state of being, being true to oneself is a state of being. Stupid words having multiple meanings >.<


Ah okay, sorry for misunderstanding.


Lol i as going to say "I something have the urge to hurt myself or others" and it isn't always right. Same idea, you beat me to it.

Medicine few women take during childbirth to block pain, that's unnatural too.

Whatever you do, that's your choice

It is not a choice. I know that from my own personal experience, not just because someone told me so.

Anyone who thinks it is a choice doesn't know what they're talking about on this particular point.

I really don't mean that as a put-down, but as a simple statement of fact.