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ZEGH8578
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12 Jun 2009, 9:20 am

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b9
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12 Jun 2009, 10:07 am

i would like to have a property of about 24710 acres (10000 hectares) that was comprised of rolling hills with meadowlands surrounded and interlaced by many stretches of bushland (forest).
i would like to have a house on it that is on the apex of the highest hill on the property. i would like for the rear of the house to be adjacent to bushland, and the front of the house to be adjacent to rolling meadows bounded far away by more bushland.

i would not have livestock or anything.
i would have possums and wild animals and birds that live in the bushland behind who me visit me every day, and i would have the vast uninterrupted vista out the front of my house of rolling meadows. i guess i would have to get cows or else the meadows would grow into unkempt thickets.

i would like to generate enough energy from solar power to not only supply my needs, but also enough to return much of it to the grid and get a healthy income from it.

i would like to discover a way to maximize the amount of energy that can be captured and stored from the sun.

i would like to have about $2 million in the bank earning 7% interest. (i was earning 7% 2 years ago (i do not yet have 2 million in the bank though))

i would not have many needs that take money to fulfill, so 140k per annum is ok for not doing anything to earn it, and also not having any requirements that cost that much.

i would like to have an entertainment room where i watch movies in a cinematic scale on a very large and crystal clear screen in a darkened sound proof and light proof room in total comfort.

i would like to have a "recording studio" set of rooms in my house on that property.
i would have a control room with a 64 track digital desk, and a recording room for performances.

i would like to have a workshop shed near my house that is huge. i would like to have metal working equipment there like computer controlled lathes and laser cutters and forge presses and all the necessary machinery i would need to actually produce a physical mechanical design i think of.

i would like to provide my few friends with an area of their own on my property.
maybe 100 acres each (that is only 400 acres if my girlfriend is included)

i would like to build them each a simple house in their area. i would probably like to use demountable buildings.

there are a lot of temporary class rooms at schools that are "demountable"
here is a classic regular demountable classroom seen often in australia.
Image

i think if you bolted 4 of them together and cut doorways into their adjoining walls so that they all are accessible to each other, then you would have a nice house with the possibility of many rooms.
demountable buildings usually cost about $20,000. they are also very strong as they are often demounted and transported around. they also must protect the kids inside from storms and falling trees etc.

there is a mild oversupply of them and they are not too expensive.

anyway, back to "utopia".

i would like for my friends to believe they earned their right to live in the dwellings i provide.

my friends are all rather maligned and unproductive people who are dead broke and have no real hope to get a job and prosper. (except for one but i do not include him in this scenario).

they are all nice people though. i would like them to develop interests that they focus on and not interrupt me often at my house. i would like to see them all smile and be happy at what they are doing and not include me.

i would like them to come to visit me about once per week each for a few hours, and then go home because they want to return to their warm beds.

i want to live my simple life without obstacles thrown in front of me by my "fellow species" .

i want to live far from the grind wheel of the world, but i want the world to be productive so i can benefit in my distant utopia from it.



ruveyn
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12 Jun 2009, 11:28 am

John_Browning wrote:
Protectionist economic policies
Mostly union labor
No gun control laws in order to facilitate self-defense
A very liberal application of capital punishment to keep crime down
The people that are left will give you a foundation and an economy to buiild a utopia


A very Heinleinian sentiment.

And armed society is a polite society. A polite society is a good society.

ruveyn



Awesomelyglorious
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12 Jun 2009, 12:20 pm

Orwell wrote:
All is for the best in this best of all possible worlds.

Meh, it might not meet some people's standards of utopia, but the modern developed nations are, on balance, a pretty nice place to be.

One of the few people to say that, but they are a Calvinist and are possibly theologically driven to claim that this is the best of all possible worlds.

The rest of us can clearly call this kind of idea out to be nonsensical, as the Voltaire folk we are.



MattShizzle
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12 Jun 2009, 12:28 pm

ruveyn wrote:
. A polite society is a good society.

ruveyn


Not really - a dictatorship can be a polite society.

Also, the US is probably the most heavily armed society in the Western world, and among the most rude - if not THE most rude, so the first part is also false.



greenblue
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12 Jun 2009, 12:37 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Well, that's the issue though, nobody EVER reaches utopia. Whenever society is "utopian" by a past standard, higher standards exist and people still generally show relatively high levels of dissatisfaction. Perhaps lower than in the past, but generally nobody has posted on this thread "we are already in utopia", and with good reason, what is keeping us from utopia is the fact that utopia is not a matter of simple material conditions but rather relates to the basic nature of others in relationship to human interests and in the basic nature of the human being itself, both of which are basically intangible.

well, that's true, and I can agree with that, given that utopia is described as something unreachable, hence the name, not to mention that what is utopic for some, likely it could be dystopic for others, but the issue was more about asking the question if the changing of the nature of humans (biologically or neurologically?) to be absolutely necessary in order for something which currently can considered utopic to happen, and well, yeah, I used a past standard to relate our current world as being utopian-like, not necessarily fully utopic though. In that sense, did humanity needed to change their nature in order to get as we are now?


Quote:
but generally nobody has posted on this thread "we are already in utopia"

Orwell apparentely did :P


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Orwell
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12 Jun 2009, 1:09 pm

greenblue wrote:
Quote:
but generally nobody has posted on this thread "we are already in utopia"

Orwell apparentely did :P

At least partly just to spite AG.

Seriously though, the world we live in isn't horrible. Well, it is for some people, but mostly we're not them.


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twoshots
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12 Jun 2009, 2:10 pm

    1) People should live in small primitive bands where their sh***y ape brains can actually function effectively and to their personal satisfaction.

    2) The dominant techno species on the planet would be some kind of race of super awesome robots.


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12 Jun 2009, 3:14 pm

greenblue wrote:
well, that's true, and I can agree with that, given that utopia is described as something unreachable, hence the name, not to mention that what is utopic for some, likely it could be dystopic for others, but the issue was more about asking the question if the changing of the nature of humans (biologically or neurologically?) to be absolutely necessary in order for something which currently can considered utopic to happen, and well, yeah, I used a past standard to relate our current world as being utopian-like, not necessarily fully utopic though. In that sense, did humanity needed to change their nature in order to get as we are now?

We are speaking past each other on the matter. Changes that improve society are not denied by me, even dramatic ones, just the idea that these ever even can reach utopia.
Quote:
Quote:
but generally nobody has posted on this thread "we are already in utopia"

Orwell apparentely did :P

Orwell sucks. Also, he's a Calvinist, we cannot expect such a sort to be intellectually honest. In any case, "this world is the best of all possible worlds" is the 7th point of Calvinism according to theologian John Piper, and it is so by the virtue that God made it, so really.... yeah...



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12 Jun 2009, 9:24 pm

ruveyn wrote:
There is no Utopia. It is a fantasy and an illusion.


That would seem a very pessimistic stance, even for me. I've already had a glimpse of the marvelous order revealed in advanced mathematics, and I certainly hope Utopia is possible. And that's if we learn to respect the less fortunate.

I'll say it again: compared to Utopia, our present, defective society can be summed up in five words:

Spoiled
Jocks
Torturing
ret*d
Babies


Once we get over the intoxicating sadism of jockhood schadenfreude, we might eventually realize that other people have feelings. If we don't, then in my mind our species would have only been a festering scar on the face of the planet.


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12 Jun 2009, 10:05 pm

lessee...it's a paperback, Black, I think it's a Penguin, sez it was written by a 'Thomas Moore'...there's even an imaginary alphabet it in...;)



pgd
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25 Jan 2011, 9:13 am

What would your utopia look like? - In my view, living in the United States of America is a kind of current utopia vs how others have lived in the past. The standard of living of many Americans exceeds the standard of living of many kings and queens who lived thousands of years ago. Look at what is available at Walmart, Sam's Club, Sears, Nordstrom, Whole Foods, Trader Joes, and so on - aspects of utopia (air conditioners in summer and heaters in winter, running water in homes all year around/cars - not horses) already exist today (my view).



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25 Jan 2011, 9:15 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
I cannot think of any sort of place that I would call a utopia.

For utopia to exist, a fundamental reconstruction of human nature would be necessary, but once human nature is fundamentally reconstructed, we aren't dealing with human beings any more, and given the level of detail necessary to reconstruct, we might really be dealing with a biological form of robot more so than a human being.

In any case, the closest thing I can think of to "utopia" would basically be a more Nozickian view, that individuals can freely associate to create the kind of society they think would work best. It would still fail to be utopic likely, but it would at least allow individuals to best match themselves to a group that represents their ideals and way of life the best.


Amen



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25 Jan 2011, 10:47 am

Well tilled fields and honest toil.

ruveyn



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25 Jan 2011, 11:11 am

ruveyn wrote:
Well tilled fields and honest toil.

ruveyn



Work makes you free.

:roll:


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25 Jan 2011, 11:19 am

It would look very different from the manner described in the book. As one of St. Thomas's most ardent fans (something he would find quite distasteful, I think), I have always enjoyed reading his work. I always get a cold shiver when some of my more left leaning acquaintances describe their love for the subtle parody of More.


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