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Orwell
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22 Jul 2009, 10:03 pm

Janissy wrote:
Luckily it seems far less deadly than was first feared and also far less deadly than the opther influenza strains that kill thousands every year and for which non-mandatory vaccinations are made available every year.

...

Going into crisis mode over a flu that is apparently less deadly than the annual influenza looks over-reactive.

The papers I have read on the topic indicate that the H1N1 flu is more dangerous than regular seasonal flu, but less dangerous than the famed 1918 pandemic flu. So it's nothing to blow off.


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Orwell
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22 Jul 2009, 10:04 pm

John_Browning wrote:
The author of that petition went off their meds. :roll:

Of course they did. Those meds were part of a NWO mind control plot.


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22 Jul 2009, 10:12 pm

Janissy wrote:
I see this as a dress rehearsal for an actual dangerous pandemic. Going into crisis mode over a flu that is apparently less deadly than the annual influenza looks over-reactive. Going into anti-vaccine crisis mode over a vaccine which is apparently no different in kind, availability or level of enforcement as the annual influenza vaccine is ALSO being over-reactive. In any case, the crisis mode does reveal where the biggest flaws are in pandemic management. I think that's what scares the WHO the most. They have a pandemic on their hands and have so far been utterly unable to stop its spread. That it is not a very dangerous pandemic is a relief but it's a relief tempered by the knowledge that if it actually was as dangerous as feared, we'd be toast.


It feels like a 'fire drill' to me too. A practice run. I don't think there's enough vaccine to go around anyway, or not at this stage, so unless you're in a vulnerable group you may not get any.



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22 Jul 2009, 10:16 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
FACT - Disease is contracted via vaccination is a small percentage of cases.

MISLEADING- This "small percentage" is so insignificant as to be statistical noise. Vaccines cause disease in far fewer cases than they prevent it, and this is well documented in many studies over the past couple centuries.

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FACT - Global thinkers have stated that spreading disease via contaminated mandatory vaccinations is a desirable way to thin out the population of "undesirables."

Evidence, please? Also, evidence that these "global thinkers" have both the expertise to produce such nefarious agents and the political clout to force their spread.

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FACT - Vaccine has shown up and tested as having the very virus they were supposed to vaccinate against (getting a shot = 100% infection probability).

MISLEADING- Vaccines quite commonly have the virus they vaccinate against by design in order to induce immunity to it. There are attenuated vaccines (weakened viruses) and killed virus vaccines, and these are some of the most effective vaccines available. This is not the same as infection.

Learn some basic immunology before you go spouting such crap.

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FACT - Even normal vaccines have undocumented side effects realized after a few months or a couple of years of use.

MISLEADING- No medical intervention is perfect, and no physician or researcher in the world is going to pretend otherwise. But the goal is to get better treatments all the time, and they usually succeed.

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Never take anything "mandated" that you haven't watched your neighbors submit to first and survive the next year afterward.

So you want to use your fellow man as a guinea pig? That's disgusting.


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22 Jul 2009, 10:20 pm

Orwell wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
The author of that petition went off their meds. :roll:

Of course they did. Those meds were part of a NWO mind control plot.

That's why I intend to invent the .300 Winchester Magnum psych med dart. Image


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23 Jul 2009, 12:38 am

There is an obvious and powerful element of malevolence in almost all social organizations and almost all social organizations have some good reason for existence. The pharmaceutical firms, like any other successful business, profit handily out of the needs and miseries of the world and many of their activities are such to optimize their profits well beyond justification but to condemn them totally is a very dangerous and unwise attitude. If people are really concerned that they are total gangsters then public protest and supervision is more the answer.



zer0netgain
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23 Jul 2009, 7:44 am

Orwell wrote:
So you want to use your fellow man as a guinea pig? That's disgusting.


Anyone foolish enough to take a mandated vaccine that's just come out IS nothing but a guinea pig.

I've NEVER been vaccinated for Chicken Pox because it came out after I was an adult, but it's not mandatory for me to have it.

They're trying to make mandatory vaccinations for cervical cancer that only works on a small percentage of cancers which do not automatically happen in a woman's life. They want to make the vaccinations mandatory for BOYS and GIRLS. All of this is based on giving a big profit to the company making the vaccine...not public health. Already a small mountain of horrible side effects are showing up because the vaccine isn't as safe as they tried to claim it was, but the push to make it mandatory isn't slowing.

There's documentation for everything I've posted. I'm not in a position to spend a few hours pulling it all back up and reposting it.



Orwell
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23 Jul 2009, 9:09 am

zer0netgain wrote:
Anyone foolish enough to take a mandated vaccine that's just come out IS nothing but a guinea pig.

When we're trying to respond to a pandemic, we don't have the luxury of the usual 10+ years of R&D for a new treatment.

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I've NEVER been vaccinated for Chicken Pox because it came out after I was an adult, but it's not mandatory for me to have it.

Most people aren't vaccinated for Chicken Pox. I was, but only because I never caught it on my own and catching chicken pox as an adult is much more likely to lead to complications. My physician waited several years before administering the vaccine to see if I would ever catch it on my own, but eventually decided it was time to induce immunity.

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They're trying to make mandatory vaccinations for cervical cancer that only works on a small percentage of cancers which do not automatically happen in a woman's life. They want to make the vaccinations mandatory for BOYS and GIRLS. All of this is based on giving a big profit to the company making the vaccine...not public health. Already a small mountain of horrible side effects are showing up because the vaccine isn't as safe as they tried to claim it was, but the push to make it mandatory isn't slowing.

Um... ok, it doesn't work on all cancers. So? It works on enough to be a significant public health benefit. Yes, there are some side effects in a small number of cases, but the benefits far outweigh the risks. Does the pharmaceutical company want to make money? Yes, of course. But there is also a significant public health benefit to mass vaccination. You may as well call for people to reject food because the push for everyone to eat doesn't come out of a desire to feed the population, but because the farmers want a big profit.

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There's documentation for everything I've posted. I'm not in a position to spend a few hours pulling it all back up and reposting it.

No, there really isn't. Even the comments you made that were technically true were presented in such a misleading manner that your overall claims just are not true at all.


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23 Jul 2009, 12:20 pm

Just the FACTS topic

There used to be other posters on WP who argued against any form of vaccination, mandatory or not.

I am still not convinced that vaccines are more harmful than the diseases themselves as long as the vaccines are administered/stored correctly. Recently, in India, certain children who received the polio vaccine still got polio. Why? This is because the vaccine was not kept at the correct storage temperature in the correct storage area. Simply put, the vaccine became contaminated, and rendered useless.

I was one of the first babies in Canada to receive the polio vaccine in 1955. I receive my booster every 10 years, which also includes the vaccines for diphtheria and pertussis (whooping cough) and tetanus.

I had whooping cough as a child because the vaccine failed. As soon as all was fixed I got revaccinated for this, and I have not had a bout of it since. 8)


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monty
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23 Jul 2009, 1:38 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
Anyone foolish enough to take a mandated vaccine that's just come out IS nothing but a guinea pig.


Again, there is no mandate for getting a flu shot. That is a fake issue. When a vaccine is made mandatory, it is for a very serious disease where the vaccine is proven.

Anyone who takes the annual flu shot assumes a certain set of risks and benefits.
Anyone who declines to get an annual flu shot assumes a different set of risks and benefits.
All evidence strongly points to the conclusion that a person getting a flu shot is likely to be better off than one who does not.

I would rather expose my immune system to a small dose of dead virus than have millions or billions of the virus particles circulating in my body, wreaking havoc. But that's just me.



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23 Jul 2009, 4:16 pm

Orwell wrote:
Tahitiii wrote:
We recognize that mandatory vaccines are thinly-veiled attempts to grow the pandemic in order to enrich the coffers of US pharmaceutical and security corporations -- the actual architects of the flu pandemic.

:lmao:

You don't really expect to be taken seriously after posting something like that, do you?


Hehe :lmao: indeed. I oppose forced vaccines because they go against the right to informed consent in medicine, but I myself will get the shot once it's out, and I don't believe there's any conspiracy behind this pandemic.



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23 Jul 2009, 4:39 pm

Whatever to the whole thing. I've never had a flu shot in my life and I've only had the flu one or twice ever in my life. The swine flu garbage scares me. Not so much for any plot but just because the company handling it recently (I think around January) accidentally shipped out a live bird flu virus instead of a vaccine. They've also had other such mishaps happen.

That and the last time they tried the swine flu vaccine was Fort Dix and of the soldiers who received it, about 500 soldiers came down with Guillain-Barré syndrome.

They're not even batting .150 on this.


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zer0netgain
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23 Jul 2009, 10:50 pm

monty wrote:
Again, there is no mandate for getting a flu shot. That is a fake issue. When a vaccine is made mandatory, it is for a very serious disease where the vaccine is proven.


Actually, no.

The push to make many unproven vaccinations "mandatory" is escalating.

The problem with "mandatory" vaccines is that it denies the patient's right to informed consent.

If you get no vaccination, nobody but you is at risk. The "public health" argument is weak at best.



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23 Jul 2009, 11:50 pm

A top surgeon here in Helsinki refused the polio vaccine when it was offered and he spent the rest of his life as a quadriplegic on a respirator. It's not an easy decision and the results can be disastrous.



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24 Jul 2009, 1:56 am

zer0netgain wrote:
If you get no vaccination, nobody but you is at risk. The "public health" argument is weak at best.

False.

For crying out loud, learn some freaking epidemiology.


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zer0netgain
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25 Jul 2009, 12:02 am

Orwell wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
If you get no vaccination, nobody but you is at risk. The "public health" argument is weak at best.

False.

For crying out loud, learn some freaking epidemiology.


I know quite a bit and know there is an active agenda to push untested chemicals on people that will have horrific effects not yet known.

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/article ... accine.htm

12,000 kids to be used as guinea pigs for the new swine flu vaccine that contains chemicals linked to Gulf War Syndrome (most people never learned how soldiers shot up with prototype vaccines were horribly affected by these vaccinations that were supposed to protect them). As soldiers, they were denied "informed consent" (illegally, I might add), and hundreds of them are crippled for life.