Christian atheism, the emerging church, liberal Christianity

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Sand
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01 Aug 2009, 2:08 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Sand wrote:

How does a Christian atheist differ from a Jewish atheist?

The fact that a Christian atheist likes the character of Christ and focuses upon it as an example of proper morality.

Therefore I take it that a Jewish atheist( who disbelieves in the Jewish God) who admires the character of Christ but does not accept Christ as being supernatural must be considered a converted Jewish atheist. Interestingly I presume a Jewish atheist who sort of likes the ideal of Christ but disagrees with some of Christ's proclamations might be considered a certain determinable percentage Jewish atheist and a percentage converted Jewish to Christian atheist. A kind of dappled atheist.

Sand
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01 Aug 2009, 3:03 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Sand wrote:

How does a Christian atheist differ from a Jewish atheist?

The fact that a Christian atheist likes the character of Christ and focuses upon it as an example of proper morality.

On reconsideration that answer seems inadequate. To be a Christian one must accept far more than the character of Christ. There is the whole hooferaw of supernatural phenomena and that is not an element to be tossed aside casually. An atheist can admire Napoleon or Lenin or Einstein or Mickey Mouse but one would not refer to him/her as a Napoleonic atheist or a Leninist atheist or an Einsteinian atheist or a Mickey Mousian atheist. An atheist is just a plain straight unupholstered atheist with no tassels and gold buttons.

Awesomelyglorious
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01 Aug 2009, 5:54 pm

Sand wrote:

Well, given that the title is self-given, there is no reason to convert or anything like that or even to conceptualize the issue in such a manner.

Sand wrote:

No, actually it is quite adequate. To be a mainstream or conservative Christian, you must accept a bunch of supernatural phenomena. However, to be a Christian atheist, you do not have to accept any supernatural phenomena. Most Christians do not accept Christian atheists as Christian, however, the name is just that, a name.

The reason why we don't have people like this is because there are no major groups that are Einsteinians, or people who really want to keep hold of their Einsteinian beliefs in the face of not having a deity, I mean, there is no Einstein brand name to exploit at all. However, there is a major group called Christians who have Christian beliefs, and there are some people want to keep some of these Christian beliefs in the face of not having a deity and even denote themselves with the Christian brand name to reflect this.

In any case, your statements don't make sense. You originally claimed to believe in Jewish atheists, now you just suddenly, out of the blue, reject the idea? To me that seems ridiculous. In addition, really, I think actually that atheists have many many categories. After all, even though the prominent atheists today are scientific rationalists, atheists aren't necessarily in that position at all.

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01 Aug 2009, 7:38 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

I thought you were PC(USA) but the problem was that I thought the PC(USA) was just mainline.

Somewhere between mainline and liberal, I guess. PC(USA) is tenuously pro-choice and allows gays into the church (though it does not support gay marriage). The PCUSA-endorsed Bible translation includes notes indicating that Scripture should be taken in a historical context, and questions the reliability of literal interpretations.

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pakled
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01 Aug 2009, 11:46 pm

The hierarchy of Episcopalianism is possibly liberal. The body of the church is farther to the right than you might think (and I would know...I'm Episcopalian...

There is a religion that teaches that Jesus was a prophet, but not divine...you might have heard of it...it's called Islam...

I just have a hard time wrapping my head around Christian Athiesm...or Jewish Fascism, or term A totally negating term B...

greenblue
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02 Aug 2009, 12:11 am

pakled wrote:

I just have a hard time wrapping my head around Christian Athiesm...or Jewish Fascism, or term A totally negating term B...

In the case of Christian Atheism, it looks like this:
A is the opposite of B
C is B
D is A and C.

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MissConstrue
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02 Aug 2009, 12:24 am

No one ever brought the term Gnostic up...but I can see why since most christians don't see it as part of their religion as a "whole"..

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Sand
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02 Aug 2009, 1:02 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Sand wrote:

Well, given that the title is self-given, there is no reason to convert or anything like that or even to conceptualize the issue in such a manner.

Sand wrote:

When I brought up the term "Jewish atheists" I mistakenly assumed you had the perception to realize how ridiculous the label was. Jews in general who have decided that belief in the supernatural no longer was rational and acceptable very frequently still retain much of a Jewish cultural heritage apart from the supernatural sector of Jewish history. To a small extent that viewpoint might be applied to Christianity. I know both Jews and Christians who delight in celebration of Christmas and in all probability that feeling has roots in the original celebration of the winter solstice and its social customs. But I doubt there is the same general cultural coherence to Christianity as there is in Jewish culture since Christianity is far more widespread and varied culturally in its different sects and practices.

ruveyn
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02 Aug 2009, 10:30 am

Orwell wrote:

"

If Jesus were around today, he would likely look at the evangelical/conservative Christians the same way he looked at the Pharisees.

The Pharisees have never departed and they are not just Jews either. Basically those who adhere to the Letter rather than the Spirit are the Pharisees, regardless of religion.

Do away with the Letter and all that is left is an attitude or a disposition which is essentially private.

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DentArthurDent
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02 Aug 2009, 4:17 pm

^ bloody heck I actually agree with you on something :lol:

When someone tells me they are a Christian the first thing I want to know is not whether they go to church, believe in the bible, believe in god ....ect but more how they behave, think and interact with the rest of society. To me a Christian is someone who tries to follow the ethical teachings of Jesus and therefore to my mind it is entirely plausible to be a non religious Christian.

And Sand Jesus was a Jew so of course you can be an atheist Jewish Christian :wink:

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02 Aug 2009, 5:02 pm

I wonder if reading the Poetic Eddas can turn someone an Aesir atheist.

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02 Aug 2009, 6:42 pm

Not sure if this should be in a different thread but here goes.....

Any religion that pity's me or makes me out to be something to be cured is IME wrong.

Also any religion that thinks homosexuality is something to be cured.

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02 Aug 2009, 8:26 pm

Sand wrote:

The term doesn't seem ridiculous to me. Many terms don't seem ridiculous to me to be honest, and often people who over estimate the ridiculous of things tend to seem more ridiculous to me.

skafather84
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02 Aug 2009, 8:38 pm

Orwell wrote:

Quote:

Christian atheism

I think it's safe to dismiss this group.

because your irrational boogie man makes so much more sense and is so much more reasonable and realistic. :roll:

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Orwell
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02 Aug 2009, 8:45 pm

skafather84 wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Quote:

Christian atheism

I think it's safe to dismiss this group.

because your irrational boogie man makes so much more sense and is so much more reasonable and realistic. :roll:

Well, Christian Atheism largely seems like a contradiction and is very much a fringe group. At least the version of Christian Atheism where they believe God used to exist but no longer does just seems silly. I suppose people could admire the historical character of Jesus and like to follow some of his teachings without believing in God, but that doesn't really qualify as Christian. There are any number of historical figures and philosophers whom one could admire.

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skafather84
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02 Aug 2009, 9:18 pm

Orwell wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Quote:

Christian atheism

I think it's safe to dismiss this group.

because your irrational boogie man makes so much more sense and is so much more reasonable and realistic. :roll:

Again: how is a god that has voluntarily offed himself to allow more freedom for his creation any less reasonable than anything else? For all you know, the apocalypse already happened and that was the result and John's "revelation" was wrong or not literally pertaining to the end of the world (as if the Bible is perfectly translated and its original intents have been preserved over time). Thieves in the night normally try to be sneaky and quiet.

Though I agree on the angle that people who just admire Jesus aren't necessarily Christian. After all, for all technical purposes one has to believe Jesus was the son of God to be a Christian.

Maybe the new Heaven on Earth is supposed to be one where all are free to pursue their desires without consequence of law so long as they don't impose on others' freedom/posessions/lives?

/I know you've designated your box but I'll continue to reside outside it.

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