The following is not a racist question

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TOG, this isn't a PPR matter - it is a WP matter. Your comments were racist, and were removed. I've neither stated or implied that such things are a matter of race; that was your statement, in case you've forgotten.

That statement makes no sense.

AFAIC, my involvement in this part of the conversation is over. The issue has been addressed, and you have been warned not to continue such behavior as it violates site rules.


M.

I didn't mention a single race!

How can I stop making racist comments when WP has an idiosyncratic definition of racism that doesn't involve race?

You made the issue of AIDS and rape involve race, so which race are you blaming for rape and AIDS in Africa?

Rape and AIDS is a huge cultural issue and invention is part of culture.

So which race are you saying is the cause of rape and AIDS?

You are acting as a typical racist, assuming that a part of a culture has to do with a race and saying it is therefore a racist observation to mention that part of a culture.

You are the epitome of literal, dictionary standard racism.

Like the old lady who says all races are equal but then says its racist if an ethnic person has a hard labour job because deep down inside she harbours traditional racism.

I'm gone from this site if it is moderated by shiny-mirror racists.

Sorry, TOG - but you're the one who made the racist commentary. If you can't abide by WP's rules, then the choice is yours. Rape and disease are not culture-specific issues, as you initially claimed. The question regarded historical invention on the continent, not the current issues that are faced by a wide range of cultures and races in that geographical location. If you cannot see the difference, I am sorry - but the warning remains. If you have anything further to discuss, you may contact myself or another moderator by private message, but I will not further indulge you in this matter.


M.

Libel isn't fair.

You removed what I said and branded me as a racist while agreeing I didn't say anything about any race.

Rape is a problem in africa and has been a problem in africa for centuries because of superstition and religion such as the belief that sex with a virgin will cure diseases.

Rape and AIDS has been an issue for a long time.

Also, you are lying, this thread is not about Africa in the past exclusively, see the original question.

They are sometimes culture-related issues, and to assert that is not at all racist. TheOddGoat has explained his reasoning, so I suggest you owe him an apology.

Let the matter drop or she'll ban you. I wouldn't enter into PM discussion either, as the result will be the same.

I just want to say that I have seen TOG's post and he was most definitely not being racist. I can understand why you would have viewed what he said as unpalatable, but I guarentee that it was factual and not posted as a racist comment. I also feel that it does discuss cultural issues that may have a bearing on why this continent still does not keep up with other areas of the world. TOG did not suggest that Africa is the only continent with these problems as you are implying, he was merely staying on topic by discussing these issues in terms of the continent of Africa. I don't even mind that you removed the post as sometimes TOG says things in a way that are not socially acceptable, he has Aspergers. However, leaving behind the comment that his post was removed because yoiu decided it was inflammatory and racist has in fact labeled him as an unsavoury member of this forum and that isn fair. Further, you have not been 'indulging' him in any way by speaking to him on this forum. For your information, he is desperately trying to prove that he is not who you have labeled him as! Why didn't you remove the post and tell TOG privately why you did so? TOG has no idea even still why what he said was so wrong and he doesn't feel he can come back to this site because he doesn't know how to fix this and he is at this moment having a huge meltdown. In my opinion, you need to have a much better understanding of Aspergers in particular and how to treat people in general before acting as a moderator. What you did by labeling him and leaving it there for all to see is, in my opinion, far worse then anything TOG said. It's a good thing that TOG has a support system around him here at home because as a young adult with Aspergers there are very view places he feels accepted and safe and your behavior towards him in this thread has made him feel that he caqn no longer count WP as one of them. Shame on you.

There is no libel, TOG. Your comments were racist; they were removed. At no point were you labeled as being a racist. If you have anything further you wish to argue, you are welcome to contact myself or another moderator.


M.

The rules specify racist comments, and posts made with the intent to provoke other members - the removal stands. If you wish to contact another moderator, you are welcome to do so. As someone with AS, I understand how it affects me - how it impacts others is something I grasp at, but do not and have never claimed to have a perfect grasp of. However, I will not apologize for taking the appropriate action. Again, if you have a problem with how it was handled, you are welcome to contact Lau, SinsBoldly, Quatermass, or Alex regarding the situation.

BTW: Ascan, I'm male. You might want to check profiles before commenting.


M.

IIRC, the first evidence for the use of ochre, interpreted as being used for ornamentation or art, comes from Africa, about 64000 years ago, far ahead of Europe.

Timbuktu had a university before most European cities did (Oxford apparently was earlier). This is from http://www.timbuktufoundation.org/history.html:

This was at a time when the Arab world was ahead of Europe.


I recommend Jared Diamond's book Guns, Germs and Steel. He proposes two important factors:

1) The influence of geography on the spread of agriculture. In Asia (including Europe) agricultural practices could spread quickly over large areas because the major axis of the continent is East-West. Agricultural practices could spread along the same line of latitude and exchanged between different places until there was a wide enough variety of plants to switch from planting a few gardens to full scale agriculture. The Americas and Africa are longer along the North-South axis, and the spread of agriculture was more difficult. Australia has a lot of desert.

2) The influence of the history of human expansion. Humans spread to Africa and Asia (and Europe) before they were efficient hunters. There are very few animal species that can be domesticated. Where humans arrived only after becoming efficient hunters (the Americas and Australia), they hunted to extinction the species that they could have domesticated before they thought of domestication. Without draft animals it is harder to build up large nations. Without domesticated animals, you don't have a large reservoir for pathogens that can jump species. European diseases went through the Americas a lot faster than European conquistadors. IIRC over half the population of the Americas died from European diseases before they ever saw a European. That made conquest a lot easier, and displacement of the native peoples by European settlers. Only one disease probably spread from the Americas to Europe: syphilis. That didn't depopulate Europe.

You might get a reasonable explanation if you combine the last few centuries of colonialism with Diamond's ideas. In the Americas and Australia, the indigenous populations were mostly displaced by European settlers, who introduced European agriculture and technology. Asian countries were not depopulated by European diseases, so displacement of the natives was not a practical option. There was less economic incentive for displacing the native populations because exploitation of existing industries was more lucrative. Africans were not displaced en masse as happened in the Americas and Australia, but did not have the same economic development as Asian countries, and the colonial powers had no interest in developing their economies.

As someone with AS, I understand how it affects me - how it impacts others is something I grasp at, but do not and have never claimed to have a perfect grasp of. However, I will not apologize for taking the appropriate action. Again, if you have a problem with how it was handled, you are welcome to contact Lau, SinsBoldly, Quatermass, or Alex regarding the situation.


M.[/quote]

We have already contacted another mod. I'll leave you with a quote I have always found to be very appropriate when trying to understand people such as you: " Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

The africans have domesticated fire, one the greattest inovation of all time.
BTW, today you need a lot of money, organisation and infrastructure for innovation, which africa lack off.

Africans have made serious developments in the field of electronic communication, and certain areas of the continent (Nigeria) are particularly notable for their efforts to profit off of electronic communication.

Just a note on earlier posts:

I understand what was wrong with my original post now and I am sorry for being mean to M.

I didn't think what I wrote would be interpreted in the way it was, but because I didn't include all of what I meant + context in the first place I understand why it looked the way it did.

Who me? I don't know the first thing about Africa. If I really wanted to make a statement, I'd check with a subject expert first. Something you might want to do too.