Black Gangs Vented Hatred For Whites In Downtown Denver

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ok, you're going into some deeply philosophical points there that I'm not certain i'm really equipped to address at this time. I recognise the arguments but couldn't put a name or school of thought to them.

as an aside I note the use of 'government' - as a Trotskyist the planned economy i had in mind wasn't Stalinism or the kind of government found in the west - if there were issues regarding our concept of time these could be addressed on a democratic basis in the soviets/ward councils/shoras of workers and peasants deputies.

Name or school? o.O This is Ethnology. Social and human sciences. T'was in my class (and it was only the first class, mind you).

I remember covering something similar studying Virginia Woolf - one of the main themes of mdernism was time and our relationship to it - partly due ot einstein's work

"Planned economy"?
Planned as is the State planning it. Like what we have today. Corporations lobbying to create economic laws to topple the competition? Eventually creating monopolies...

That concept is flawed. Look at world, it is not in a good shape, all because of this institution called the State, that allows for anyone with big bucks to influence its laws.



Profit is not just money, money is a medium of exchange between people. You make something I like, I pay you money for it, you use that money to buy what you want.
A group of people want something(demand), another group of people will listen and provide that something(supply)... There is no need for central planning to waste time trying to figure out what product or service will sell best... Products and services arise quasi-naturally.

The better and more efficient you work the more profit you should get(only in a free market though).
This creates an incentive to do a good job, to come up with new products, to respect the demand of the consumer.



Your idea of an economy is only good for State officials and the parasitic lazy leeches of society.
People who want to grow economically are persecuted, obstructed, violence is initiated against them.

Communism does not respond well to human nature, it is force over reason, that is why it failed and will always fail.

That's because communism (in its intended form, not the soviet one) is a bit more altruistic than capitalism, where greed rules. <.<

But wait a sec... How come we're talking about this after watching the title? =.= Talk about a nice thread hi-jack.

The old fashioned punishments should be brought back, no matter how "inhumane". People do s**t to get thrown in jail now just so they dont have to live on the streets and s**t. Hell, even the prisons themselves tend to be a bit too cushy. Prison and stuff should break down thier will, denying them any happiness. Rehab from what statistics have shown dont really help. Most people when released go right back to committing crime, this is evident in the area I live in at least. Rapists and murderers should just get killed. People want to sympathize with the criminals too much anymore. Want to prevent gang growth in prisons? You force EVERYONE into solitary confinement, that way people cannot meet together to even form the gangs.

Another thing, make executions public, that way the person makes a f*****g example of what happens when you commit such atrocities.

No, we live in a market economy. Monopolies are the result of 'free' market competition not coroporate lobbying (that is also circular, you seem to be saying that monopolies exist because of state laws to topple competition, state laws exist because of monoploy groups lobbying for those laws)- monopolies dominate the market because they remove the inefficiencies between multiple small businesses thereby making them more profitable and as investors seek the greatest profit from invested capital they will tend strongly toward the monopolies - Lenin's Imperialism, the highest form of capitalism is a short book that addresses this in greater detail. In it's most condensced form the aim of Trotskyists is to chop the head off of monopolies (by abolishing private property) and placing these monopolies under the democratic control of workers.

Planned economy as in economy run according to a plan agreed on a democratic basis among the working class. The wiki article kind of covers it - "Planned economy or directed economy is an economic system in which the state or workers' councils manage the economy. [1] It is an economic system in which the central government makes all decisions on the production and consumption of goods and services." (here)



the point of Marxism is to entirely remove the overbearing influence private business/capitalists have on the state and reestablish it under the democratic control of the working class, this is the meaning of revolution followed by dictatorship of the proletariat.



I fully understand how the market is supposed to function - the question is of it not meeting the needs of humanity and of the sheer devestation it causes.



As monopolies function more efficiently than non-monopolies they dominate the market. The market always spins itself toward monopolisation.



in theory. in practice?


1)so if I inherit $70 million invest it, drive my fast car and sleep with beautiful women all week, come back and find i now have $100 million I am not a parasitic lazy leech on society?
2)you seem to concede yourself that the free market no longer exists because of monopolies - but if the free market always leads to monopolisation.....



Stalinism you mean.

and apologies for hi-jacking.

You are in favor of a punitive system and oppose a rehabilitational system.
Punitive systems do not help anyone, they are psychologically torturous even to the guards and leave no benefits behind but a temporary removal of the convicted.
Rehabilitation can only work when the person voluntarily goes through it.


A system that is just, is a system that attempts to compensate for the offense. This is called a compensatory system.

If people who scam and steal would have to pay back exactly what they stole plus an extra fee, they would rather work than engage in such a gamble.


I do agree certain serious crimes prove the defectiveness of certain humans and that is why they should be eliminated, preventing his/her crimes from being repeated not for the mere action of punishment or for the emotional retribution of the affected.

While I'll agree that black on white violence is often overlooked, coming from you (a person who's posts tend to spout white supremacy) I can't take you seriously. Quite sad as I said it is a problem overlooked and I wish it could be addressed by someone with some credibility.

We don't live in a market economy.
If we did, selling Cannabis and prostitution would not be illegal. You nor me had to pay taxes or be regulated by the State.

Monopolies are created by benefits(contracts, subsidies. certifications, permits, patents) given by the State to certain corporations over small enterprises, particularly friends and family, people who would spend on the State, help the State grow together with themselves. This is called "corporatism" or Fascism or Communism, which are all the same, meaning, State and means of production together initiating violence toward others who want to become independent and own property.

If you are against private property, anything you have does not belong to you and if it doesn't then to who? To the "people"? To the "public"?... You'll be ravaged by lazy people who did not work to get what you got, because is due to your work that you got these things... Or you think things like these fall from the sky?
There must be someone making these things, and that someone makes things that sell and to sell you need costumers. Whoever sells good stuff, get good profits as a reward.
Welfare does more harm than good..
The State knows this very well, they spend a lot on welfare, they know these people will help support their system of extorting the money of one group to end on another group.


"Planned economy based on the democratic basis among of the working class"
And the minority what? Has to accept what the 51%+ wants? Or can they secede? Or would they be called "separatists", "unpatriotic" or "isolationists" and be denied their independence?
Accept it, democracy can only work if the minority is willing to lose. You, want to force people to participate in your planned economy. That makes you a tyrant, unless this democratic system is a voluntary system exclusive of a designated area agreed upon by likeminded individuals.


The market does meet human needs, better than anything else. The market is an orgy of the exchange of goods and services.
Where everyone might find whatever they are looking for(you exchange money obtained through work for the work of others).


Monopolies do not function better than non-monopolies.
Monopolies are hard to keep standing in a free market economy where competition leaves an open door for new comers with innovative ideas.
Patents, granted by the State, allow companies to keep a monopoly on a certain product.
Subsidies are not granted to everyone, the same with State contracts to build the infrastructure of a city, who gets it? We know who... The allies of the State, not those who believe in a true free market absent of State intrusion.



I don't want to tell you how to live your life.
I'm just telling you how the market works.
You Socialists/Communists/Statists do not know how the market operates because the only economics you know of are the words of a man from a time where economics was not well understood.
Marx and the ramifications of his ideology lead to violence, intrusion, coercion and the intimidation of people who attempted to free themselves from the grasp of the State.

are you a Freidmanite? can it only be called a market economy if everything can be bought or sold?



I really don't see why I should respond to a comment so intellectually lazy as to claim that communism and corporatism are the same things. nevertheless....
are you claiming the market has never existed because the state has never been eliminated?
If so then how would you describe the economies of the very late 18th and 19th centuries when there was a state but no corporations, only small enterprises?
Germany was a fascist state but had massive privately owned businesses and plenty of private property. Italy was corporatist under Mussolini, as was Chile under Pinochet and both had huge quantities of private property concentrated into a small number of hands.



I own nothing but the clothes I wear and the laptop I am typing on everythinbg else I pay someone else rent for, private property already does not exist for me. By abolishing private property everything from housing to shares in businesses and corporations will be taken into communal ownership, the house is 'owned' by the people who live in it, the factory by those who work in it, the soil to those who turn it.



If you intend to patronise me perhaps you should begin by having something valid to say. I am already 'ravaged', as you put it, by those who hold private property - share holders, absentee landlords etc - who cream off a profit from the work I do, adding nothing to the community they live in (usually in 'gated communities') excpet the virtue of possessing property.
"because is due to your work that you got these things..." I can only assume you forgot inheritance of property when typing this.



? what world do you live in? Have you never heard of a group called 'workers'. It's a fascinating concept, they're a group of people who have nothing in the world, not an ounce of private property and only their labour to sell, hence the name 'worker'. The overwhelming majority of the goods today are made by these 'workers' in large groups in factories and workplaces that are owned by corporations and businesses of varying sizes. You seem to be referring to the artisans of the middle ages.



welfare prevented me from starving to death between the ages of 5 and 12.



you've clearly never had to subsist on the handouts from the state. welfare is one of the few things lad has delayed the overthrow of private property in the 20th century. it's also prevented not a few people from dying of hunger or exposure.



the working class (£25k and less per year, this being the wage of a fireperson or junior manager) makes up at least 75% of the UK population. the rest certainly can secede, the 4% who live primarily off their private property, they can take all their bits of paper saying I own this that and the other. We'll keep the factories and farms and housing and carry on making the necessities of society.



Marxist are ardent internationalists, calling someone 'unpatriotic' would be the strategy of the outgoing group.



No I don't. I simply recognise that the market economy and private property is anathema to the progression of humanity, there has been and will be time when the majority, the working class, recognise that in order to live a decent life free of the dominance of capital in our lives private property will have to be abolished, the market will have to be abolished, in favor of an actually deomcratic way of running an economy where every individual has one voice, one vote; not 10% holding 71% of the 'votes' (that is the wealth distribution across US households in the US taken from here), that is the tyranny I believe you are referring to.

are you saying the rise of capitalism has been peaceful and beautiful and has been in now way forced upon the people who live under it? Again you must live on a different earth to I, as I distinctly recall not a few episodes of the capitalist 'democrats' beheading kings, reigns of terror so on and so on. capitalism has done and will continue to accomadate itself nicely to the state, 'democratic' or not.



again which part of the milky way do you orginate from?
come back to me when you've looked at the figures for the number of people living on or below starvation level in the world, the number who live in immensely overcrowded conditions, the number who live amongst the waste their society produces (the rubbish heaps in cities in asia and india), the number who die from treatable diseases etc etc



why is your response to every point i put forward simply to reiterate your previous point? are you an ideologue?



what? patents are form of private property for crying out loud.



? you really do come across as a conspiracy theorist.



I know how the market works you patronising oik.



oh dear lord give me strength....the entire point of marxism and the proletarian revolution is to end the state

You've got a victim mindset, TLC. You better get over that if you want to make the most out of life, because your marxist revolution isn't going to be happening anytime soon.

jog on ascan. I'm yet to see you put forward a coherent argument to support your pointless racism, so, again, you resort to this kind of rubbish. Victim mindset? I'm not the one constantly harping on about 'the white man been driven out of his job and his home, deprived of his culture blah blah blah blah'. how's about you put a valid counterpoint to the points I raise against the positions you take or say nothing at all.

nice rebuttal TLC. <.<

the guy annoys me, he really does. I get this kind of thing at work too.

I've explained myself here plenty of times, TLC, and coherently, too. Many such examples have, however, been within threads that have been removed by the WP thought police. It all boils down to being a realist. You see, history is replete with examples of the bloodshed that is a consequence of different religions and cultures being forced into close proximity. Moreover, human beings naturally prefer association with those of their own kind. To add to that, certain modern democratic states do prevent their culture being swamped by the hoards from third-world dumps by restricting immigration. So, to reject multiculturalism and mass immigration is sensible based on several criteria, and also achievable. Your leftist fantasy may -- if I'm to be generous -- be intellectually engaging for some, but completely unrealistic in the real world. Indeed, if one uses similar critieria to those I've done to briefly support my position on immigration such as historical evidence and commonly-observed human behaviour, your workers' revolution leading to some kind of Utopia is nothing but a pipe dream.


I annoy you because your dogma allows no room for reason: it's like a religion, with your god being Trotsky.