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FeralAspie
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21 Dec 2009, 5:05 pm

I was raised an atheist and have never been able to understand religion (although I do see spirituality as different).

I'd be interested if there are any Aspergers who were raised as atheists who subsequently became believers. I'd find it pretty amazing (especially for someone outside the US).

Also, it's be interesting to compare statistics from United States responses to these sort of questions and non-US responses. I find it incredible to read what percentage of people over there believe in God.



Fuzzy
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21 Dec 2009, 6:50 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Fuzzy wrote:

Since you are a stickler for literalism, you should be informed that it is entirely possible to get pregnant without penetration.



Barely possible and highly unlikely, especially back in those bad old days. If a Roman Centurion had his way with poor Miriam he would have busted more than her hymen.


Unless she was supplementing her income in creative and even more ancient ways. Or she just had an eye for foreigners.

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I think it is highly likely that the biological father of Jebus was a human male.

ruveyn


I myself cannot conceive - ha! - of any other possibility.


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21 Dec 2009, 10:10 pm

There hasn't been any statistical data, so I'm just speculating here. But I do think there's a correlation - not enormous, but still stignificant - between Asperger's and atheism. I will not offer a propogandistic or self-serving hypothesis for this. Some attachment to platonic ideals of "logic" or "independence" does not explain this. Rather, the chief characteristic of Asperger's (an atypical mirror neuron system), does the job nicely:

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Dawkins suggests that the root of religion lies in the efficiency of a shortcut. In childhood, a bit of credulity and the ability to mind one’s elders are extremely useful traits. Trial-and-error learning can be expensive—consider the cost of, for instance, learning firsthand why not to swim with crocodiles. To trust and obey authority figures is far preferable. The idea is interesting, but Dawkins overlooks another potential determinant: Empathy. It is both an extremely useful skill for navigating the complex social landscapes of human culture (so useful that it is taken for granted), and it is easily displaced onto nonhuman entities or objects. Most significantly, we have evidence from the neurophysiology of mirror neurons that empathy is to some extent hardwired into the brain. At least, it’s a better-documented biological property than obedience (which, as I recall from raising my own children, was not particularly reliable).


Excrepted from PZ Myer's Richard Dawkins hasn't stopped his tirade against religion and its "dangerous nonsense"—he's fighting smarter. Has Darwin's rottweiler been house-trained?



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21 Dec 2009, 11:22 pm

The notion of a personal god never made sense to me for the same reason people acting as if malfunctioning devices have evil intentions never made sense to me, it's an imposition of human social reality on the physical worl. It's delusional, to be frank.


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21 Dec 2009, 11:39 pm

l05tin5pac3 wrote:
I think I don't believe in any god, actually I think I try not to "believe" anything at all. So I think I'm probably not even an atheist. But I think I also try not to think I "know" something as well.
Some things seemingly seem so obvious and logical to me that I think I act as if I knew them but actually I probably only think them to be highly probable. Some things I may have experienced, but I seem not to know if the "I" in the past is the same "I" I seem to experience right now... This - I guess - is the closest to "belief" I seem to come.

I maybe could say I don't believe in knowing, and I really don't know about believing at all :D

phewww! OK I GIVE UP! I BELIEVE TO THINK WHAT I AM THINKING, at least! And I BELIEVE to experience what I call ME and I just f*ing assume you know what I mean....


awesome, I get it...

I used to be more autistic and logical, but now I'm more schizophrenic...The gods to me are emotions, Love, Truth, Justice, Lust, Power, Envy, Compassion...They are the spirits with no reason.

Check out this theory:

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/badcock ... index.html


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Sand
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21 Dec 2009, 11:51 pm

Magnus wrote:
l05tin5pac3 wrote:
I think I don't believe in any god, actually I think I try not to "believe" anything at all. So I think I'm probably not even an atheist. But I think I also try not to think I "know" something as well.
Some things seemingly seem so obvious and logical to me that I think I act as if I knew them but actually I probably only think them to be highly probable. Some things I may have experienced, but I seem not to know if the "I" in the past is the same "I" I seem to experience right now... This - I guess - is the closest to "belief" I seem to come.

I maybe could say I don't believe in knowing, and I really don't know about believing at all :D

phewww! OK I GIVE UP! I BELIEVE TO THINK WHAT I AM THINKING, at least! And I BELIEVE to experience what I call ME and I just f*ing assume you know what I mean....


awesome, I get it...

I used to be more autistic and logical, but now I'm more schizophrenic...The gods to me are emotions, Love, Truth, Justice, Lust, Power, Envy, Compassion...They are the spirits with no reason.

Check out this theory:

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/badcock ... index.html


Considering the negative effects of male genes by Mr. Badcock theory he seems most appropriately named. I have noticed the most peculiar coincidence of names and accomplishments by people I have read about in the news and it only adds to the suspicion that we are mere characters in a story by an Author with an ironic wit. This is, of course, an inappropriate comment in this thread but what the hell.



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21 Dec 2009, 11:53 pm

haha Sand. :lol:

Maybe Jung was right on with the synchronicity theory.


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22 Dec 2009, 12:31 am

Autism in my mind is not a mental disorder or disease but a neurological malfunction of sorts. But I can only speak for myself. I have had a lot of environmental stressors that do cause mental disorder like depression and PTSD but there is a drastic difference between mental illness and a pervasive developmental disorder that is caused by neurological damage both to the brain and nervous system. It's hard enough to cope with it all without more and more confusion that's constantly being generated by "science" and so-called research, and I'm just personally at my capacity with trying to cope with it all. Sorry this is off topic.



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22 Dec 2009, 1:01 am

Meadow wrote:
Autism in my mind is not a mental disorder or disease but a neurological malfunction of sorts. But I can only speak for myself. I have had a lot of environmental stressors that do cause mental disorder like depression and PTSD but there is a drastic difference between mental illness and a pervasive developmental disorder that is caused by neurological damage both to the brain and nervous system. It's hard enough to cope with it all without more and more confusion that's constantly being generated by "science" and so-called research, and I'm just personally at my capacity with trying to cope with it all. Sorry this is off topic.


Although I do not have any of the problems of severe autism I do feel severely set apart from the enthusiasms of general humanity and I feel not so much deprived as released from what appear to me to be meaningless and time wasting activities and interests.



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22 Dec 2009, 1:19 am

Sand wrote:
Meadow wrote:
Autism in my mind is not a mental disorder or disease but a neurological malfunction of sorts. But I can only speak for myself. I have had a lot of environmental stressors that do cause mental disorder like depression and PTSD but there is a drastic difference between mental illness and a pervasive developmental disorder that is caused by neurological damage both to the brain and nervous system. It's hard enough to cope with it all without more and more confusion that's constantly being generated by "science" and so-called research, and I'm just personally at my capacity with trying to cope with it all. Sorry this is off topic.


Although I do not have any of the problems of severe autism I do feel severely set apart from the enthusiasms of general humanity and I feel not so much deprived as released from what appear to me to be meaningless and time wasting activities and interests.


I'm sure you know what you're talking about but I know I don't know what you're talking about. In association with what I said, it makes no sense but I guess one must get used to this sort of thing around here from what I can gather.



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22 Dec 2009, 1:27 am

I'm sorry if that sounds rude. I'm just in a crappy place right now.



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22 Dec 2009, 1:48 am

Meadow wrote:
I'm sorry if that sounds rude. I'm just in a crappy place right now.


Not rude at all. I accept that many people really suffer from autism. My minor correlation to Aspergers is not debilitating but it seems to be definitely there.



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22 Dec 2009, 2:05 am

To get back to the OP it seems to me that autistic and Asperger people have great difficulty with normal social comprehensions and interactivity. Aside from the morality and the supernatural aspects of religion a huge proportion of it is involved with regular social interaction, an activity that is lost on a great many Asperger and autistic people who have great difficulties there. Perhaps atheism as such is not so important as the general lack of interest in group gatherings. I know for myself I am comfortable with a couple of friends but when it comes to large groups I shy away.



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22 Dec 2009, 2:41 am

Sand wrote:
I have noticed the most peculiar coincidence of names and accomplishments by people I have read about in the news


There is definitely something to that. Just tonight I was watching a program where they interviewed an ichthyologist named Doctor Fish. One of our local news casters has some name that directly relates to his job too. I think hes a meteorologist but his actual name escapes me.


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l05tin5pac3
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22 Dec 2009, 6:20 am

Magnus wrote:
awesome, I get it...

I used to be more autistic and logical, but now I'm more schizophrenic...The gods to me are emotions, Love, Truth, Justice, Lust, Power, Envy, Compassion...They are the spirits with no reason.

Check out this theory:

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/badcock ... index.html


it's a rare gem! thanks for the link!
I can see some relation to my own state of mind, but even more so to a good friend, who is obviously expressing ASD as well as PSD.



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22 Dec 2009, 9:06 am

Fuzzy wrote:
Sand wrote:
I have noticed the most peculiar coincidence of names and accomplishments by people I have read about in the news


There is definitely something to that. Just tonight I was watching a program where they interviewed an ichthyologist named Doctor Fish. One of our local news casters has some name that directly relates to his job too. I think hes a meteorologist but his actual name escapes me.


Claude Raines? C.P. Snow?

ruveyn