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Fuzzy
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07 May 2010, 1:25 pm

ruveyn wrote:
The distinction you make is quite valid. Government has gotten quite out of hand in the last 80 years and there are principled grounds for protesting the breach of Constitutional bounds which occur on a daily basis.

The left-wing press and media, however, conflates the principled libertarian objections with the braying of the yahoo faction. To the left-wing all protest against intrusive government is clearly racist and ignorant. And denial of the liberal-statist agenda is clear evidence of either ignorance or hatred.

ruveyn


There is a valid distinction to be made. I'm actually a fiscal Conservative and sit close to the ideals of some of those people.

Unfortunately there is hybridization in those gatherings.

The problem is that the yahoos mix themselves in among you and subsume the image of the whole. Its analogous to moderate Muslims refusing to do anything about the violent ones. If you dont want to be associated with idiots, dont let them associate with you. Ten Canadians in a group with 90 Americans looks like a group of 100 Americans. Draw yourselves apart or accept external classification.

Telling a redneck from a libertarian is like sexing a baby chicken.


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07 May 2010, 2:02 pm

I am amazed at the degree of polarization on this subject. From what I read, each side is convinced the other is stupid, misguided, or evil. Stand back and look at the strings being pulled behind the scenes. The Republican and Democrat parties are made of millionaires, backed by political donations from corporate sources. From my perspective, corporations are marketing ideas so half the people accuse Democrats, and the other half accuse Republicans. Either way the polarized vote goes, the Corporate millionaires still end up with more control of the government than the average person, because they control both parties. The billionaires play and market both sides of the game and since we bought into one side or the other, we never notice. No wonder they are rich.


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iamnotaparakeet
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07 May 2010, 3:12 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Fuzzy wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
American Democrats and their foreign allies are just trying to perform character assassination


You sound like the Iranians when they blame their troubles on the influence of foreign devils. And the bulk of your paragraph employs the tactics that it deplores in the American Left.

Both the American Right and left have foreign allies. Why castigate them while forgetting those traits in yourself? What you are essentially doing is what sports fans are infamous for:

-we won because of skill.
-they won because they cheated

-the weather was against us, so we lost
-the refs favoured them

-we won the election because our moral position resonated.
-they beat us at the polls by cheating

Nobody ever says "Oh man, lucky the snow was blowing in their faces or we would never have beat them." No, its always about skill and righteousness in you, and bad luck and cheating by the other guys.

And you know very well thats what the other team says about you when the situation is reversed. Fair or not.


Ironic isn't it? :P


However, Fuzzy, sometimes it is skill versus skill and not so much a matter of excuses. I like this scene from Saving Private Ryan, where (although not said in this segment) the American sniper admitted that the German sniper had talent.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxElnjaWiQE[/youtube]



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07 May 2010, 4:50 pm

ruveyn wrote:
To the left-wing all protest against intrusive government is clearly racist and ignorant.

Not at all. When people protest against warrantless wiretapping, torture, and other abuses of an intrusive government, the left-wing does not call such protest racist or ignorant. When people are hurling racial slurs and are completely and unambiguously wrong on simple questions of fact, then they are called racist and ignorant because, well, they are.


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Fuzzy
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07 May 2010, 5:34 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Fuzzy wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
American Democrats and their foreign allies are just trying to perform character assassination


You sound like the Iranians when they blame their troubles on the influence of foreign devils. And the bulk of your paragraph employs the tactics that it deplores in the American Left.

Both the American Right and left have foreign allies. Why castigate them while forgetting those traits in yourself? What you are essentially doing is what sports fans are infamous for:

-we won because of skill.
-they won because they cheated

-the weather was against us, so we lost
-the refs favoured them

-we won the election because our moral position resonated.
-they beat us at the polls by cheating

Nobody ever says "Oh man, lucky the snow was blowing in their faces or we would never have beat them." No, its always about skill and righteousness in you, and bad luck and cheating by the other guys.

And you know very well thats what the other team says about you when the situation is reversed. Fair or not.


Ironic isn't it? :P


However, Fuzzy, sometimes it is skill versus skill and not so much a matter of excuses. I like this scene from Saving Private Ryan, where (although not said in this segment) the American sniper admitted that the German sniper had talent.


I'm not going to watch that, I havent had the pleasure of seeing the movie.

But its a good example yes.

Not giving credit where credit is due diminishes our own successes, wouldnt you say?


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iamnotaparakeet
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07 May 2010, 9:03 pm

Fuzzy wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Fuzzy wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
American Democrats and their foreign allies are just trying to perform character assassination


You sound like the Iranians when they blame their troubles on the influence of foreign devils. And the bulk of your paragraph employs the tactics that it deplores in the American Left.

Both the American Right and left have foreign allies. Why castigate them while forgetting those traits in yourself? What you are essentially doing is what sports fans are infamous for:

-we won because of skill.
-they won because they cheated

-the weather was against us, so we lost
-the refs favoured them

-we won the election because our moral position resonated.
-they beat us at the polls by cheating

Nobody ever says "Oh man, lucky the snow was blowing in their faces or we would never have beat them." No, its always about skill and righteousness in you, and bad luck and cheating by the other guys.

And you know very well thats what the other team says about you when the situation is reversed. Fair or not.


Ironic isn't it? :P


However, Fuzzy, sometimes it is skill versus skill and not so much a matter of excuses. I like this scene from Saving Private Ryan, where (although not said in this segment) the American sniper admitted that the German sniper had talent.


I'm not going to watch that, I havent had the pleasure of seeing the movie.

But its a good example yes.

Not giving credit where credit is due diminishes our own successes, wouldnt you say?


Yes, it is important to give credit where it is due. Also, an underestimated enemy is more able to surprise than one who is recognized for their accomplishments.



Jacoby
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08 May 2010, 12:40 am

I don't think there is any stigma besides a media created one. You'd think the way Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid talk about them that it looked like the like the protests in Greece going on right now.(those are being led by the countries leftists aren't they?) In reality it's just a bunch of old white grandma's in lawn chairs and poster board signs. Scary huh?

I agree tho that there the neocons(who are basically the mainstream of the GOP now) are trying to co-opt the movement.



HermanTheTosser
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08 May 2010, 3:23 am

The Tea Party? Aren't these the same mouth-breathers who whine about "keeping the government's hands off our medicare"?



ruveyn
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08 May 2010, 8:51 am

Orwell wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
To the left-wing all protest against intrusive government is clearly racist and ignorant.

Not at all. When people protest against warrantless wiretapping, torture, and other abuses of an intrusive government, the left-wing does not call such protest racist or ignorant. When people are hurling racial slurs and are completely and unambiguously wrong on simple questions of fact, then they are called racist and ignorant because, well, they are.


What about unconstitutional intrusions such as income redistribution. There is no constitutional basis for social security or medicare. There is no constitutional basis for government insurance of bank deposits.

ruveyn



Berchtesgaden
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08 May 2010, 10:57 am

It is as Ann Coulter said: most women vote democrat because women don't understand politics. Only men should have the vote.



Berchtesgaden
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08 May 2010, 10:58 am

It is as Ann Coulter said: most women vote democrat because women don't understand politics. Only men should have the vote.



ruveyn
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08 May 2010, 12:41 pm

Berchtesgaden wrote:
It is as Ann Coulter said: most women vote democrat because women don't understand politics. Only men should have the vote.


Well, he ought to know.

ruveyn



iamnotaparakeet
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08 May 2010, 1:33 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Berchtesgaden wrote:
It is as Ann Coulter said: most women vote democrat because women don't understand politics. Only men should have the vote.


Well, he ought to know.

ruveyn


Two counts of "what the...". One, I don't agree with Ann there, and two, Ann is not a "he".



ruveyn
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08 May 2010, 2:27 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Berchtesgaden wrote:
It is as Ann Coulter said: most women vote democrat because women don't understand politics. Only men should have the vote.


Well, he ought to know.

ruveyn


Two counts of "what the...". One, I don't agree with Ann there, and two, Ann is not a "he".


Check our "her" Adam's Apple.

ruveyn



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08 May 2010, 3:38 pm

Just typical partisan politics as usual. When George Bush was in office, anti-war protesters were dismissed as anti-American and giving "aid and comfort" to the enemy. Now, the Tea Partiers are dismissed as racist, uneducated rednecks who have no real reason to be protesting aside from the fact that a black man is in the white house, which is a ridiculous assumption.

I don't deny that some of the tea party protestors are probably racist, but saying that that's they're prime motivation for protesting is utterly ludicruous. Isn't it a legitimate concern to be worried about how our tax dollars are being spent, or being worried about the deficit? That has nothing to do with racism, and it's an incredibly simplistic notion to think that racism is still so common in our country that it's the prime motivation for nationwide protests.

I do, however, think that Republicans take their rhetoric to a more ridiculous extreme than Democrats usually do, and they also have more media outlets to spread their rhetoric. Republicans are generally more partisan than Democrats, and have opposed Obama's every move with far more intense rhetoric than Democrats did during the Bush administration.



iamnotaparakeet
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08 May 2010, 3:44 pm

ruveyn wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Berchtesgaden wrote:
It is as Ann Coulter said: most women vote democrat because women don't understand politics. Only men should have the vote.


Well, he ought to know.

ruveyn


Two counts of "what the...". One, I don't agree with Ann there, and two, Ann is not a "he".


Check our "her" Adam's Apple.

ruveyn


A thin neck with a trachea, oh wow. Do you have any proof that she's actually a guy or just nonsense like this?