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ruveyn
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02 Jun 2010, 8:32 pm

Wombat wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Wombat wrote:
What will happen in the near future when America can no longer afford to pay unemployment benefits and welfare and food stamps?

It is going to get really nasty.


makework projects.

ruveyn


Yes, provided that the government has the money to pay for these projects.

And if they don't?


They print it. The government can never run out of money. Also they can requisition material after declaring a national emergency. A combination of making money out of thin air and rationing or "allocating" resources and the country keeps on going. That is how the U.S. managed WW2. By the way, we won that war. We came right out of a depression and underutilized plant and became wonderfully rich.

ruveyn



mesona
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02 Jun 2010, 9:00 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Wombat wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Wombat wrote:
What will happen in the near future when America can no longer afford to pay unemployment benefits and welfare and food stamps?

It is going to get really nasty.


makework projects.

ruveyn


Yes, provided that the government has the money to pay for these projects.

And if they don't?


They print it. The government can never run out of money. Also they can requisition material after declaring a national emergency. A combination of making money out of thin air and rationing or "allocating" resources and the country keeps on going. That is how the U.S. managed WW2. By the way, we won that war. We came right out of a depression and underutilized plant and became wonderfully rich.

ruveyn

We can print all the money we want. Its just paper if we do not have the gold to back it.


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jc6chan
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02 Jun 2010, 9:14 pm

Actually, I can somehow find out where in the city there are events where free food is served. I'm sure in a big city there is always free food served somewhere.



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03 Jun 2010, 4:27 pm

The Government can only print money if banks buy T-bills to fund it. (Unless, of course, Congress decides to withdraw your country from the global financial system, in which case you can kiss your energy imports good-bye.)

But to the issue at hand: Theft isn't going to land you in prison. It probably won't even get you a night in jail, just a summons to appear for Remand.

But the brutal reality is that there are people in precisely this situation, and one of the methods that they turn to is property crime. Governments look to cutting entitlement programs as a way to balance their budgets, and those who are cut off then have to find other methods to feed, clothe and shelter themselves. Those economic activities (particularly the consumption of food) have to be paid for somewhere, and if the public sector isn't going to do it, then the private sector will, either through charity, through the black market, or through theft and insurance.


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04 Jun 2010, 7:42 am

mesona wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Wombat wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Wombat wrote:
What will happen in the near future when America can no longer afford to pay unemployment benefits and welfare and food stamps?

It is going to get really nasty.


makework projects.

ruveyn


Yes, provided that the government has the money to pay for these projects.

And if they don't?


They print it. The government can never run out of money. Also they can requisition material after declaring a national emergency. A combination of making money out of thin air and rationing or "allocating" resources and the country keeps on going. That is how the U.S. managed WW2. By the way, we won that war. We came right out of a depression and underutilized plant and became wonderfully rich.

ruveyn

We can print all the money we want. Its just paper if we do not have the gold to back it.


Fiat currency.



ruveyn
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04 Jun 2010, 8:28 am

mesona wrote:
We can print all the money we want. Its just paper if we do not have the gold to back it.


Metallic backed currency is just as much a social convention as fiat money. Consider gold: aside from some uses as a foil, jewelery, dental fillings, plating and such like uses, what good is it? You can't eat or drink it. It won't keep warm when you are cold. As a usable entity, oil has more utility than gold. Gold happens to be a nice looking metal that won't rust and can be subdivided easily. The makes it useful as a trade good, but it is not inherently useful.

ruveyn



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04 Jun 2010, 11:08 am

I'd probably go fishing and foraging first. See what I can do by myself. I rather like outdoor living, but it's a lot easier when you've got somewhere to return home to. I'd rather not be an extra burden on services.


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Wombat
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05 Jun 2010, 5:56 am

There was an Australian book about the early days.

The son of a convict was talking to the son of a rich settler.

The settler's son said "My father would never steal".

The convict's son said "Well, he never had to, did he"?



Francis
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05 Jun 2010, 8:02 pm

There is no way I would chose to go to jail becuase I am hungry. I value my freedom way too much.

Right now as I look out my window, I see seven squirrels, a acorn tree and a ten pound chicken of the woods mushroom. There's a month worth of food right there. It only took a one second glance out the back window. If I wait a half an hour, there is a family of deer that feeds in the field every night. Now If I look at the front window, I see a lake that is thriving with cat fish.

There's no reason to go to jail. I can eat good off of the land if needed.



Orwell
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05 Jun 2010, 8:11 pm

mesona wrote:
We can print all the money we want. Its just paper if we do not have the gold to back it.

It's not currently backed by gold, and hasn't been for decades.


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Sand
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05 Jun 2010, 9:56 pm

It's not only the government that creates money. When a bank makes a loan that money is created and that goes on continuously in our society.



Asmodeus
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06 Jun 2010, 9:49 am

With or without currency, the waste of food (especially in America) is enough to feed everyone who cannot get food by buying or being given it. Dumpster diving.



ruveyn
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06 Jun 2010, 10:20 am

Sand wrote:
It's not only the government that creates money. When a bank makes a loan that money is created and that goes on continuously in our society.


That is true. Money drawn on a legal and creditable checking account will buy beans at the grocery store. The main difference between private credit sources and government credit sources is that loans must be repaid UNLESS we have a generous government who will hit the taxpayers in their guts and wallets for the bad loans.

In a just and sane society credit extension is limited by the ability to ultimately repay the loans. In the wonderful wacky world of government programs they can keep opening up government checking accounts ("printing money") with no practical limitation except the total breakdown of the economy. The ultimate end of government foolishness will be the refusal of merchants and firms to accept "legal tender" and they will only barter hard goods and services.

ruveyn



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06 Jun 2010, 2:32 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
Three hots and a cot...free medical care. .
And all the anal rape the other inmates could dish out. You better pray its a federal pen you get sent to state run prisons are hell holes. My cousin is a prison guard he has seen inmates rushed to the doctor for torn anuses and beatings they took before the rape to soften them up. He said its not pretty. 8O

Would robbing a bank get you federal time? If yes then why not.