Where will capitalism end?

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The government produces wars which, I gather, made you a very fat living all your life and is dumping wealth into your beloved corporations at a fabulous rate.

I don't think a capitalist society can have any particular goal per se, at least if you go along with the microeconomic premise of independent agents buying and selling, each hoping to maximize their utility as being part and parcel of capitalism. Certainly this element is not present as a major part in no other system, from feudalism to fascism to the state socialism of the old USSR, North Korea, etc. Goals, such as they are, would be defined at an individual or maybe related group level, not by a country as a whole.

But as others have pointed out, that situation simply does not exist in reality, never has and probably never shall. Every nation I can think of (possibly excepting North Korea) is currently organized as a "mixed economy" with govenment intervention at all levels and in numerous ways, but with the means of production typically in private hands, though some places there's more direct state control, others not so much.



That's an easy one to answer: corporations, publicly traded or not, are NOT run with the interest of their shareholders in mind, and have not been for quite some time. They are run by their upper management for the benefit of this upper management. Period. Don't get me wrong, they keep this group in mind but probably think more about the artwork in their corporate suites.

My favorites are the cases where the companies get ground into dust and the CEO STILL cashes out nicely. Carly Fiorina evaporates 60% of the market capitalization of Hewlett-Packard and gets $20 million to get fired, errrm, pursue other interests. An idiot like Chuck Prince essentially flushes Citigroup down the toilet and pockets $38 million for his "troubles." (And I think that $38 million is a "tip of the iceberg" in the deal.) Citi was in the $50/share range in the 3rd quarter of 2007. Its under $5/share now. Chucky-boy bet big time that real estate would only go up, up and away, so even though he was gone by the time the stock hit its lowest point, he's the man. And Angelo Mozillo. The guy should be doing a perp walk somewhere in an orange jumpsuit to match his orange skin (google his image, not for the faint of heart.)

BTW, as far as I can tell, this is an instance where Marx got it completely wrong. I've never seen anything from him on shareholders and management having downright adverse interests, which in this day and age they clearly do. Jame Burnham, oddly, seems to have gotten all his particulars wrong but the general thesis correct, in a book he wrote in 1941 or 1942. And what we're either in or heading toward is something close to his thesis. Or that's what it looks like to my eyes.

A major way they could put some honesty back into the stock market would be to legally mandate that a purchased stock could not be sold until a minimum of 20 business days had elapsed. That would cripple a lot of the "stock surfing" that goes on where people buy a stock with no intention to earn dividends but to just dump it once it goes up enough for their fancy.

Not all stock pays dividends.

ruveyn

Not quite. Risk has been largely transferred to the lower classes. The rich get all the rewards, little risk, most risk has been successfully transferred down the scale. I can just hear them laughing now, Muahahahahahah! Wohahahahahaha!,

Slug Gingrich had a law passed during his Contract on America days to transfer power from shareholders to upper management.

Government produced this here internet!

Middlesbrough.

Using computers and technology that were invented by private parties on their own initiative. And the internet as a commercial useful entity was not mandated nor was it supervised by the government. The government invented the crude initial version. Private parties and firms have done the rest.

Challenger and Columbia were government programs from start to finish. You saw what became of them. If you have read the papers recently you will discover the government does not even know what or who is buried at Arlington National Cemetary.

We are governed by fools, crooks, knaves and incompetent parasites.

ruveyn

Ad if you find great sympathy with the likes of the Wall Streeters and BP you also are a fool, knave, crook and parasite.

Ad if you find great sympathy with the likes of the Wall Streeters and BP you also are a fool, knave, crook and parasite.[/quote]

The current crew of bankers and crooks are insufferable. Unfortunately government law puts these sh*ts in a monopoly position. Also the government bailed them out. If they had been left to fall by the government, these folks of which you speak would soon be out of our hair.

ruveyn

Yeah I can imagine them too. Why on Earth do we all put up with this?

The current crew of bankers and crooks are insufferable. Unfortunately government law puts these sh*ts in a monopoly position. Also the government bailed them out. If they had been left to fall by the government, these folks of which you speak would soon be out of our hair.

ruveyn[/quote]

I wonder how out of touch you can possibly be in New Jersey. It's precisely the SOB money bunch that has grasped control of the executive, the legislative and the judicial sectors of government that is preventing positive government control of their gangster activities. The power lies with the money and the private sector has all the money. Can you not see that?

The private sector also produces just about everything we eat, wear, live in or use. Can you not see that. What does government produce? Lies, wars, scandals, oppression, and shortages.

ruveyn

As I have discovered with discussions with people mentally twisted by religion there is no way for them to recognize good sense and reality. Ruveyn, you evidently are in the same position with the moneyed monsters who run most of the world.

Some of the "moneyed monsters" actually produce and invent useful. I think of people like Ed Land for instance. I think of people like Salk and Sabin. I think of capitalists like George Westinghouse who had the brains to fund Nikola Tesla and bring alternating current to the world. I think of the Wright Brothers who produced the first workable and practical heavier than air powered flying machine. They invented controlled powered flight out of their own moneyed pockets ($1200 1901 dollars). Contrast this with Samuel Langley, funded by Congress to the tune of $50,000 U.S. (1901 dollars). All of his planes crashed and sank in the Potomac. Such are the "moneyed monsters".

There are no good governments and there never were any good governments. There are only bad governments and worse governments. See what Pierre Josheph Proudhon had to say about government.

ruveyn