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iamnotaparakeet
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02 Jul 2010, 3:23 pm

Jono wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
01001011 wrote:
I doubt the creationists' classification have any scientific basis. I am interested to see what is the genetic barrier between humans and other primates. I doubt any creationist can produce one.


How about 16 million non malevolent mutations?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7lnLCatp64[/youtube]


As I recall, you've posted that same video before. In any case, why should that many non malevolent mutations be a problem for evolution? Even if most mutations are malevolent, natural selection would weed those out and the organisms with them would die out.


What are the actual rates though? 16 million alterations to the genome which wouldn't be selected against, how long would that take?

Jono wrote:
By the way, you haven't thought any further about Orwell's challenge, have you?


Yes, and I replied to it in another thread.



iamnotaparakeet
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02 Jul 2010, 11:02 pm

Orwell wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Okay, I personally wouldn't know what it would look like at a genomic level, but the method of testing whether two creatures are within the same holobaramin has been viable hybridization since the mid 40's. Most of the research has been done with grasses though, and not with animals.

You posted a baraminology tutorial a while back (I don't remember exactly where it was, I think maybe from CMI) that denied viable hybridization as being a good measure to define the outside limits of a baramin. It posited that if two organisms could successfully hybridize, they were definitely in the same holobaramin, but that the inverse was not true (two organisms in the same holobaramin would not necessarily be able to hybridize). In fact, if we take successful hybridization as the sole measure of what a baramin is, then we have already demonstrated dozens of examples of organisms crossing baramins, which renders the field moot.

But what do you think of the predictions I proposed? Do they seem reasonable to you? They give testable hypotheses that could be used to falsify either evolution or baraminology, depending on how the results came out.


Go ahead with your spiel. I accept your challenge on the term that you clearly define your terms and show your method of attaining your results.



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02 Jul 2010, 11:30 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Go ahead with your spiel. I accept your challenge on the term that you clearly define your terms and show your method of attaining your results.

Excellent. I shall create a new thread for dealing with this topic, as currently the discussion is scattered across at least three different threads. I would like some more input from you as to specifics before I begin the experiment; it is likely to be long and tedious and I want to know beforehand that I am pursuing a mutually agreeable path of inquiry.


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iamnotaparakeet
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02 Jul 2010, 11:34 pm

Orwell wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Go ahead with your spiel. I accept your challenge on the term that you clearly define your terms and show your method of attaining your results.

Excellent. I shall create a new thread for dealing with this topic, as currently the discussion is scattered across at least three different threads. I would like some more input from you as to specifics before I begin the experiment; it is likely to be long and tedious and I want to know beforehand that I am pursuing a mutually agreeable path of inquiry.


Okay, post a link to it here when you've started it if you don't mind though.



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03 Jul 2010, 12:17 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Okay, post a link to it here when you've started it if you don't mind though.

Here it is:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp2888832.html#2888832

I think I've gotten a decent definition for what constitutes a "wall" in the phylogenetic data. Basically it's any point beyond which phylogenetic analysis fails to give you reasonable, consistent results.


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