Colonization of the solar system

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ruveyn
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15 Jul 2010, 11:52 pm

hale_bopp wrote:

Theres no point colonising a planet or moon without a molten metal outer core. Unless humans can think up some other way to get around being pummelled with radiation, that isn't too expensive to support entire populations... I'll stick to earth.

On the moon we can burrow into the lunar surface sufficiently to protect against expose to solar and cosmic rays. In the part of the month corresponding to the new Moon the solar radiation would be way down. The radiation problem is manageable.

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skafather84
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15 Jul 2010, 11:57 pm

Sand wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

The place to colonize first is the moon.

1. It is close enough to support from the ground.
2. It is an ideal place to build large space craft since it has a shallow gravity well.
3. The darkside is the obvious place to build all sorts of observatories. Dark sky is guaranteed half the month and low gravity makes construction of large dishes and mirrors practical.
4. The Moon may have valuable resources which will pay the way for further space travel development.
5. The Moon will be in ideal place for humans to learn to live off Earth for long periods of time.

Going for Mars is not wise as a first step. It is too far, and colonization will be extremely expensive.

ruveyn

Quoting in agreement.

And I'd gladly go to live on the Moon...though I think I might miss the rain if I did.

You might try living for a few months at the bottom of a deep shaft of a coal mine to discover ow much fun it would be living in a subterranean habitat. With time and tons of money you might make it more cheerful but I doubt that kind of investment would be around for a while.

I'm not that big a fan of the sun so I don't think that would bother me much. And it wouldn't take much to make it more cheerful. If I can perk up an office cube, I doubt a space station on the moon would be much harder.

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iamnotaparakeet
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16 Jul 2010, 12:09 am

ruveyn wrote:

Sand wrote:

I have yet to see a mass eagerness to live in Antarctica or the Sahara Desert where there is an abundance of air and water is far more available than on either Mars or the Moon and the travel expenses are relatively negligible. Aside from research groups it seems unlikely any sensible person would migrate off Earth.

Neither the Moon nor Antarctica are for the masses. There are thriving scientific settlements in Antarctica and comfortable housing exists for those who have a good scientific reason for being there. It may get kind of dull in the Antarctic winter, but one can hunker down and be comfortable. Likewise, decent housing eventually can be built on the Moon. For those who have an occupational reason for being there or can afford the housing, living in a gravitational field one sixth as strong as Earth could be a very enjoyable and relaxing way to live.

ruven

Actually, I would like to live down there at some point. The penguins are cool birds and it would be neat to see them in person and hear how they speak.

greenblue
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16 Jul 2010, 12:10 am

ruveyn wrote:

hale_bopp wrote:

I believe emulating the exact same gravity of earth somehow on the surface of the moon and on mars should be necessary, if I'm not mistaken, as the low gravity would posit a problem to people's organisms as well as the growing of plants, given the necessity of agriculture in these places. And given that, how far is that to actually be succesfully accomplished is the question.

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iamnotaparakeet
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16 Jul 2010, 12:12 am

greenblue wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

nor do I want it to be about "the human race needs to evolve into Vulcans before doing anything cool"

But I really think that the human race should evolve into Vulcans before doing anything cool.

Throwing Silik out an airlock would be cool. At least when he doesn't have a rescue waiting for him.... (ST Enterprise reference).

iamnotaparakeet
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16 Jul 2010, 12:15 am

greenblue wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

hale_bopp wrote:

Emulating Earth gravity on another planet would have numerous problems, such as friction of axles requiring a constant supply of energy. In the vacuum of space a space station or ship in rotational motion will practically remain rotating until thrusters are fired to counter the rotation.

Sand
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16 Jul 2010, 12:31 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Sand wrote:

Actually, I would like to live down there at some point. The penguins are cool birds and it would be neat to see them in person and hear how they speak.

They might even encourage you to change your "name" to Iamnotapenguin".

iamnotaparakeet
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16 Jul 2010, 12:34 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

No, interplanetary stations would require fuel if they are used to reduce the fuel requirements. Creating them as way stations to save fuel would be self-defeating. Even further they would be expensive. Finally, the Earth year and the Martian year vary, so there is a good chance that the way stations will get out of sync rather quickly and do no good.

Interplanetary stations would reduce fuel requirements of merchant ships in this way: they would allow for a shorter total trip and not require the ship to enter and leave the gravitational field of the Earth or moon (yes, I know gravity acts at all distances, but by the inverse square of the distance). They would need less fuel to leave from a space station in interplanetary space than they would need to leave a space station in low earth orbit. Also, there would need to be about three to do it properly, but the waystations could also act as communication hubs in addition to their role of fuel reduction and cargo bays could be rented from them by various businesses for use as distribution hubs.

iamnotaparakeet
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16 Jul 2010, 12:38 am

Sand wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Sand wrote:

Actually, I would like to live down there at some point. The penguins are cool birds and it would be neat to see them in person and hear how they speak.

They might even encourage you to change your "name" to Iamnotapenguin".

Perhaps you might be more brilliant if you decided to move to the surface of the sun.

Sand
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16 Jul 2010, 12:54 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Sand wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Sand wrote:

Actually, I would like to live down there at some point. The penguins are cool birds and it would be neat to see them in person and hear how they speak.

They might even encourage you to change your "name" to Iamnotapenguin".

Perhaps you might be more brilliant if you decided to move to the surface of the sun.

Frightened about being rejected by penguins?

iamnotaparakeet
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16 Jul 2010, 12:57 am

Sand wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Sand wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Sand wrote:

Actually, I would like to live down there at some point. The penguins are cool birds and it would be neat to see them in person and hear how they speak.

They might even encourage you to change your "name" to Iamnotapenguin".

Perhaps you might be more brilliant if you decided to move to the surface of the sun.

Frightened about being rejected by penguins?

Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

Sand
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16 Jul 2010, 1:02 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Sand wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Sand wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Sand wrote:

Actually, I would like to live down there at some point. The penguins are cool birds and it would be neat to see them in person and hear how they speak.

They might even encourage you to change your "name" to Iamnotapenguin".

Perhaps you might be more brilliant if you decided to move to the surface of the sun.

Frightened about being rejected by penguins?

Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

Calm down. I'm sure the penguins will accept you but you never can be sure. If you keep up this personal tirade this conversation will surely be wiped.

iamnotaparakeet
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16 Jul 2010, 1:10 am

sarek wrote:

What is most important right now is an affordable way to get into LEO and back. The shuttle and the rockets used today do not qualify. If we want mass transit we need something better.

Next on the list are large permanently manned space stations. We need those to figure out if astronauts are ready for long periods in space. Ideally some form or rotation generated artificial gravity could be experimented with.

The moon will be a way station, although I doubt it will ever be a major human colony, There is very little in the way of support available there and even if its smaller there still is a significant gravity well.

Lets not forget the Lagrange points either. They could be good location for large space stations.

Pioneering missions to Mars will have been launched in the mean time and by now the technology may have evolved to build that space elevator. That will really launch humanity into space in a major way.

Future space exploration could be made much more efficient by using nanotechnology and nano assemblers. Its easy to see a future where not only the planets but also all the asteroids, Kuiper belt objects and Oort belt objects will be colonised or exploited in some way.

In terms of affordable, competing with Earth's gravity will use the same amount of energy for the same amount of mass so what needs to be done there is to use whatever the most cost effective fuel is. There are multiple factors in such as selection, such as supply of fuel, energy per mole, vapor pressure of products, mass of container to house them, but whichever is the most cost effective at a given time is the one that should be used.

I like your outlook on the other aspects of entering spacefaring.

John_Browning
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16 Jul 2010, 1:27 am

I'm not trying to jack this thread into a foil hat discussion, but I think that the government being more forthcoming about what they know about aliens, UFOs, and if there is really an alien moon base (pictures I've seen from GOVERNMENT websites make this sound plausible IMO) and if they would want to kick us off the moon.

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Sand
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16 Jul 2010, 1:34 am

John_Browning wrote:

I am beginning to comprehend your delight with guns.

iamnotaparakeet
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16 Jul 2010, 1:53 am

John_Browning wrote:

If there were interstellar aliens who wanted to make a base in this solar system, the moon would be unlikely for a choice. Mars has twice the gravity and six times the surface area. The length of day on the moon is about 27 Earth-days whereas a day on Mars is 1.026 Earth days meaning nearly the same optimal rotation period for heating and cooling. The axial tilt of Mars is 25.19 degrees as compared to Earth's 23.45 degrees, which means a possibility of similar seasons once the planet is terraformed. Given propulsion capable of interstellar travel, there would be little reason for them to have a base on the Earth's moon if even any aliens were to desire to take a chunk of our solar system.

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