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Sand
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27 Jul 2010, 5:27 am

ruveyn wrote:
NobelCynic wrote:
This is intended to be another free will topic but with a twist. I would like to leave the free part out of it, because I think it only confuses the issue, and address the question of is there any such thing as human will at all.

Many years ago, back when I was programming, my employer sent the computer operator to some programming classes (which I thought was a waist of money) because they wanted to give him a chance to improve himself. Soon after he started asking me almost philosophical type questions like “how does the computer know if a>5?”. I would respond with brief technical answers and he informed me that that's not what he was looking for when he said “I'm trying to get inside the computers head”. I managed to hold on to my patience and explained to him once again that “the computer doesn't have a head, it doesn't have a heart, it doesn't have any feelings, it doesn't have any emotions, it doesn't have any desires. IT'S A MACHINE. Why do you find that so difficult to understand?”

I tell that story in the hope that it will illustrate, in a reverse sort of way, how it appears to me that some people seem to see themselves as biological machines with no control over their input, no control over their processing, no control over their output, and in most cases, no designer or programmer.

Do I have that right?


Computers, such as exist today, do not know anything. A car does not "know" where it is going, only the driver. The car my carry a device that indicates the location of the car (say a GPS device) but this is not knowing.

ruveyn


Some cars today know where they are going and the likelihood is that more will do so.



ruveyn
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27 Jul 2010, 7:33 am

Sand wrote:

Some cars today know where they are going and the likelihood is that more will do so.


Knowing is not the mere storage of data. To know something implies one knows that he/she knows what he/she knows. No machine currently has that awareness. If you count storage of data as knowing then a sheet of paper knows what it written on it.

ruveyn



Sand
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27 Jul 2010, 7:53 am

ruveyn wrote:
Sand wrote:

Some cars today know where they are going and the likelihood is that more will do so.


Knowing is not the mere storage of data. To know something implies one knows that he/she knows what he/she knows. No machine currently has that awareness. If you count storage of data as knowing then a sheet of paper knows what it written on it.

ruveyn


An awful lot of people I have encountered lately have not even that awareness. A piece of paper does not act on it's stored data. A computer, like people, does, which indicates awareness.