Serious question to those against Abortion.

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As many said, that is exactly what some churches think, note catholics are the majority among Christian denominations.

As for rationalizations in other branches of christianity that do not consider them to be the same. Sperm and eggs are not really human beings until fertilization, (once the two halves of the DNA create a new different combination)

let me leave this thread and 4 3 2 1. i'm out.

It's not the concept of control over the environment or reproduction itself that I find bothersome--that, I think, is the purpose of abstinence and birth control (condoms, the pill, etc.). It's simply that I think that the time to invoke that control is before conception. I don't want the legal system to be used to ban abortion because I don't think it will accomplish anything other than creating another set of dangers; I will speak my opinion, though, and hope that people see its merit of their own accord.

I think Cathloics and other Christians see sex as a way of procreating...not for pleasure. Abstince is the way to go.

There is a levitical rule against "spilling seed," but I can't recall exactly--just guessing either Leviticus or Deuteronomy, but I'll have to go back and find it. I'm focusing more attention on the prophets as of late.

The account of Onan pre-dates Moses, if I remember correctly. That was a unique situation, however. God commanded that he father children, specifically with a certain woman. And for disobedience, he lost his life over it. "Spilling seed," the way I read it, could refer to any number of things from Onan's sin to masturbation. But I think the idea might be more of a hygienic issue in regards to purity rather than a serious crime.

I don't really care to get in a heated discussion on abortion. Points 2 and 3 do not seem to be regarded as relevant in the Bible. Actions that are even related to idolatrous practices are condemned, whether worship is a deliberate goal or not.

Point 1 is the REAL issue when it comes to abortion. What's interesting to me how often it is when human life is concerned, people try to redefine exactly what personhood is. Slavery, for instance, is justified when a race or group is somehow demonstrated to be inferior, subhuman, or otherwise "property." I'm sure it was somewhat easier for the Nazis to kill Jews if they could be shown to less than animals. So it's no surprise that the main argument in baby-killing is to somehow rationalize how an unborn child is not a human life.

"It has been estimated that 50 percent of all human conceptions end in spontaneous abortion, usually without a woman even realizing that she was pregnant. In fact, 20 percent of all recognized pregnancies end in miscarriage. There is an obvious truth here that cries out for acknowledgment: if God exists, He is the most prolific abortionist of all." Sam Harris

The first commandment in the Bible is : Be fruitful and multiply. Abstaining and having no children is therefore a sin. From a Jewish point of view it is the obligation of every man to take a wife (or wives) and make babies. BTW: The Hekshir limiting Jews to only one wife expired about ten or fifteen years ago. From the standpoint of Jewish law there is no stricture limiting a man to just one wife. However when Jews live in countries which have laws against having more than one wife at a time they are obliged to obey those laws --- dinat malachutah din --- the law of the domain is the Law.

ruveyn

Ended beginnings topic

+1

Right, and religious folk of yesteryear found birth control and CONDOMS to be similarly immoral. The idea that autonomy is revocable at arbitrary times in the reproduction process is silly.

Heck no. Most pro-lifers (myself included) believe that life begins at conception, not before.

First, PunkyKat talked about the idea of procreation being the only purpose for having sex, not about abstaining from having children, so, the idea is that if you don't plan having kids you should abstain from sex until then.

Secondly, I believe Christianity may have differed from Judaism in that aspect, at least this is what appears to be from Paul's writings, given that he advised men to lead a celibate life, so at that point it seemed to be acceptable within early christians.

"Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. " 1 Corinthians 7:1-2

"Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion." 1 Corinthians 7:8-9

"Now about virgins: I have no command from the Lord, but I give a judgment as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy. Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for you to remain as you are. Are you married? Do not seek a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife. But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this." 1 Corinthians 7:25-28

"For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it." Matthew 19:12