any freethinkers here?

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GreySun369
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08 Aug 2010, 3:04 pm

ruveyn wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

I charge for my thoughts.

ruveyn

But thankfully your thoughts are so commonplace in the market, they're rendered free.

I am an advocate of egotism, selfishness and non-forgiveness. That puts me at odds with the current thought and sentiment in the U.S. I do not believe in feeding the worthless poor and hungry and I do not believe in sacrificing my interests in favor of the interests of others.

Almost any American believes that selfishness is wrong on principle. I believe it is necessary for survival.

If you need a friend, get a dog. Don't come to me.

ruveyn

I think you'd be suprised to know that more Americans share that point of view then you think.

Awesomelyglorious
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08 Aug 2010, 3:09 pm

I have no idea what counts for "free thinking". Frankly, here's what I am:
* Biased
* System-building
* Dependent upon past constructed ideas
* Thoughtful

Do I take things at "face-value"? No, of course not. But rather, like any good scientist(I am not a scientist, btw), I work within the current theoretical paradigm(s) to make sense of events until it seems clear that the paradigm needs to be scrapped. The reason being that most "face values" contradict the outcomes of other "face values" to a degree that we have to criticize it all more deeply and fundamentally and construct ways to make sense of it all.

In some sense, I am not "free", just as my mind isn't so open that anybody can stick anything into it. Rather, I would consider myself a critical thinker than make any pretension to being free and open.

daniel3103
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08 Aug 2010, 3:39 pm

Ichinin wrote:

i do consider people in general to be non-thinkers.

I agree! I've even met people who are proud to shout from the rooftops that they avoid thinking.

GreySun369
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08 Aug 2010, 3:42 pm

daniel3103 wrote:

Ichinin wrote:

i do consider people in general to be non-thinkers.

I agree! I've even met people who are proud to shout from the rooftops that they avoid thinking.

Yeah, who needs thinking! We should all just get high and drunk while waiting for death.

daniel3103
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08 Aug 2010, 3:46 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

I have no idea what counts for "free thinking".

I would consider myself a critical thinker than make any pretension to being free and open.

A freethinker is someone who only uses logic, observation and reason in order to form opinions. Free, in this sense, means free of dogma or untested beliefs.

GreySun369
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08 Aug 2010, 4:16 pm

GreySun369 wrote:

Yeah, who needs thinking! We should all just get high and drunk while waiting for death.

I just want to point out that I was kidding when I said that. I hope nobody took it seriously. :oops:

pgd
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08 Aug 2010, 4:21 pm

Regarding freethinking/freethinkers, have looked at several Masonic sites and find them full of symbolism.

http://www.gwmemorial.org/

daniel3103
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08 Aug 2010, 4:29 pm

pgd wrote:

Regarding freethinking/freethinkers, have looked at several Masonic sites and find them full of symbolism.

I don't think that Freemasons in general are freethinkers, although some of them probably are.

Here is a webpage giving examples of famous freethinkers:

http://nobeliefs.com/freethinkers.htm

Awesomelyglorious
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08 Aug 2010, 4:46 pm

daniel3103 wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

I have no idea what counts for "free thinking".

I would consider myself a critical thinker than make any pretension to being free and open.

A freethinker is someone who only uses logic, observation and reason in order to form opinions. Free, in this sense, means free of dogma or untested beliefs.

So, you are saying that that a freethinker is a kind of human being that doesn't exist? Well, I am certainly not one of those. I recognized long ago that not every single belief could ever be tested.

That being said, have fun with this:
1) Suppose that P is some piece of knowledge. Then P is a justified true belief.
2) The only thing that can justify P is another statement – let's call it P1; so P1 justifies P.
3) But if P1 is to be a satisfactory justification for P, then we must know that P1.
4) But for P1 to be known, it must also be a justified true belief.
5) That justification will be another statement - let's call it P2; so P2 justifies P1.
6) But if P2 is to be a satisfactory justification for P1, then we must know that P2
7) But for P2 to count as knowledge, it must itself be a justified true belief.
8 ) That justification will in turn be another statement - let's call it P3; so P3 justifies P2.
9) and so on, ad infinitum.

Orwell
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08 Aug 2010, 4:51 pm

daniel3103 wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

I have no idea what counts for "free thinking".

I would consider myself a critical thinker than make any pretension to being free and open.

A freethinker is someone who only uses logic, observation and reason in order to form opinions. Free, in this sense, means free of dogma or untested beliefs.

There is no such thing as a "freethinker" then by your definition.

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just_ben
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08 Aug 2010, 5:08 pm

Whereabouts in Hampshire? I'm moving to Southampton in September, but I've been on the coast all my life. I've even started to pick up the dreaded 'yokel' accent!

I also consider myself a freethinker, but I'm not really sure what the bounds of freethinking are supposed to be. I mean, A freethinker can still agree with mainstream opinions and stuff, so how can you define something that vague?

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greenblue
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08 Aug 2010, 5:12 pm

Orwell wrote:

daniel3103 wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

I have no idea what counts for "free thinking".

I would consider myself a critical thinker than make any pretension to being free and open.

A freethinker is someone who only uses logic, observation and reason in order to form opinions. Free, in this sense, means free of dogma or untested beliefs.

There is no such thing as a "freethinker" then by your definition.

well.................

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethought wrote:

Freethought is a philosophical viewpoint that holds that opinions should be formed on the basis of science, logic, and reason, and should not be influenced by authority, tradition, or any dogma.[1] The cognitive application of freethought is known as freethinking, and practitioners of freethought are known as freethinkers.[2]

Overview

Freethought holds that individuals should neither accept nor reject ideas proposed as truth without recourse to knowledge and reason. Thus, freethinkers strive to build their opinions on the basis of facts, scientific inquiry, and logical principles, independent of any logical fallacies or the intellectually-limiting effects of authority, confirmation bias, cognitive bias, conventional wisdom, popular culture, prejudice, sectarianism, tradition, urban legend, and all other dogmatic or otherwise fallacious principles. Applied to religion, freethinkers have generally held that there is insufficient evidence to support the existence of supernatural phenomena.

A line from "Clifford's Credo" by the 19th Century British mathematician and philosopher William Kingdon Clifford perhaps best describes the premise of freethought: "It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence."

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Last edited by greenblue on 08 Aug 2010, 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DarthMetaKnight
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08 Aug 2010, 5:15 pm

Orwell wrote:

daniel3103 wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

I have no idea what counts for "free thinking".

I would consider myself a critical thinker than make any pretension to being free and open.

A freethinker is someone who only uses logic, observation and reason in order to form opinions. Free, in this sense, means free of dogma or untested beliefs.

There is no such thing as a "freethinker" then by your definition.

I see some truth in that Orwell. I call myself a freethinker just because I'm not afraid to think something if I really feel like it. I'm not sure how to explain that any further.

A lot of my beliefs are based on intuition and I don't think there's anythink wrong with that. Spinoza used a lot of intuition and lots of people in the modern day like him.

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Orwell
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08 Aug 2010, 5:20 pm

just_ben wrote:

I also consider myself a freethinker, but I'm not really sure what the bounds of freethinking are supposed to be. I mean, A freethinker can still agree with mainstream opinions and stuff, so how can you define something that vague?

You can't. It's a self-applied title among people (most commonly atheists) who want to feel smugly superior to everyone else.

greenblue wrote:

Orwell wrote:

daniel3103 wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

I have no idea what counts for "free thinking".

I would consider myself a critical thinker than make any pretension to being free and open.

A freethinker is someone who only uses logic, observation and reason in order to form opinions. Free, in this sense, means free of dogma or untested beliefs.

There is no such thing as a "freethinker" then by your definition.

well.................

wikipedia wrote:

OK. And no human has ever lived who fulfilled the definition put forward in Wikipedia. A "freethinker" as described there would simply not be a functioning human being.

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greenblue
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08 Aug 2010, 5:33 pm

Orwell wrote:

OK. And no human has ever lived who fulfilled the definition put forward in Wikipedia. A "freethinker" as described there would simply not be a functioning human being.

well I think that the term and movement applies more during the renaissance era and the end of the inquisition, in which the catholic church was the authority of all knowledge.

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Last edited by greenblue on 08 Aug 2010, 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

leejosepho
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08 Aug 2010, 6:11 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

GreySun369 wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

Like any good scientist, I take things at face value and begin investigating and digging in order to uncover and discover.

You're a scientist? That's really cool!

What kind are you?

He didn't say he was. He said "like any good scientist", which doesn't say he is or isn't. I wouldn't think he is a scientist though.

No, that was just a tongue-in-cheek stretch within the science of living life on life's terms.

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