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Why America's birthrates are so low

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Vexcalibur
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08 Nov 2010, 9:15 am

We can agree that you love your nostalgia-spiced memories of them as babies.


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Crimsonfield
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08 Nov 2010, 9:16 am

Wombat wrote:

Yes but that is mostly thanks to millions of illegal Mexicans.

In fact the birthrate in every Western country has dropped below replacement level. Russia's population is dropping by hundreds of thousands a year.

So Europe is importing millions upon millions of people from Africa and other third world areas, most of whom cannot speak English (or German or French) and they have never worn shoes or seen a flush toilet.

These people are supposed to replace the children we didn't bother to have. They are to be the doctors and engineers and businessmen and scientists of the next generation. Don't make me laugh.

I hope you like Sharia law because Europe will be over 50% Muslim within 50 years.


Exaggerating much?



number5
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08 Nov 2010, 2:45 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
You love your children. But you hate babies. You hated your children when they were babies. And it is normal because babies are awful creatures that everyone hates.

You really wanted children and went through the hated hassle of having babies in hopes you can exchange them with children one day. But only so much people like children enough to overcome their hatred of babies, you are the minority.


Horse crap. We loved our children when they were infants and we loved them grown up and at all stages in between. And starting with an infant one can actually see intelligence emerge. Infants can grow a mind and a language in under two years.

ruveyn


+1, and I've still got one in diapers. :)

I do think the economy will cause a measured drop in birthrates. I know we'd like to add to our family, but we simply can't afford it right now. :(



LKL
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08 Nov 2010, 2:53 pm

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/08/ ... 1139.shtml

you're not alone.



psychohist
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08 Nov 2010, 3:41 pm

Erisad wrote:
I dunno, I always thought the birth rate was so low because raising kids is too expensive. Food, clothes, education, etc. A lot of people simple cannot afford to raise a kid. That's just my opinion though.

The biggest cost is that someone has to take care of the kids. Since the tax system heavily penalizes hiring child care, usually one adult has to quit working to have kids. That means that it's especially hard for people who actually work for a living to have children, which is kind of problematic.

Vexcalibur wrote:
We can agree that you love your nostalgia-spiced memories of them as babies.

Here's a page I made when my daughter was still a baby, so it wouldn't have been "nostalgia spiced":

http://www.powderhouse.com/~wdew/person ... ks_4_to_8/

Now, maybe when I smile at that page now, I'm looking through rose colored glasses, but I really don't think it seems like I hated babies back then.



ruveyn
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08 Nov 2010, 3:45 pm

psychohist wrote:
Erisad wrote:
I dunno, I always thought the birth rate was so low because raising kids is too expensive. Food, clothes, education, etc. A lot of people simple cannot afford to raise a kid. That's just my opinion though.

The biggest cost is that someone has to take care of the kids. Since the tax system heavily penalizes hiring child care, usually one adult has to quit working to have kids. That means that it's especially hard for people who actually work for a living to have children, which is kind of problematic.

Vexcalibur wrote:
We can agree that you love your nostalgia-spiced memories of them as babies.

Here's a page I made when my daughter was still a baby, so it wouldn't have been "nostalgia spiced":

http://www.powderhouse.com/~wdew/person ... ks_4_to_8/

Now, maybe when I smile at that page now, I'm looking through rose colored glasses, but I really don't think it seems like I hated babies back then.


You have a beautiful child. May she live long an prosper.

ruveyn



puddingmouse
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08 Nov 2010, 3:53 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
You love your children. But you hate babies. You hated your children when they were babies. And it is normal because babies are awful creatures that everyone hates.

You really wanted children and went through the hated hassle of having babies in hopes you can exchange them with children one day. But only so much people like children enough to overcome their hatred of babies, you are the minority.


Even though you're talking crap, part of me chuckles and slightly agrees with you.

Giving birth is horrible. And really little babies are just crying pooing blobs until they reach about 9 months. I'd like kids, one day, but I'm not all that keen on the whole baby thing. I know many women who are the other way round because toddlers and children are more challenging. I suppose babies are sort of cute in a crying pooing blob sort of way - but kittens are cuter. Maybe if I had my own, it would seem less pooey and blobby.



Janissy
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08 Nov 2010, 4:05 pm

psychohist wrote:
[Here's a page I made when my daughter was still a baby, so it wouldn't have been "nostalgia spiced":

http://www.powderhouse.com/~wdew/person ... ks_4_to_8/

Now, maybe when I smile at that page now, I'm looking through rose colored glasses, but I really don't think it seems like I hated babies back then.



:sunny: :heart: She is so cute. PPR is the last place I ever thought I'd see cute baby pictures so thanks for that.



Erisad
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08 Nov 2010, 5:01 pm

psychohist wrote:
Erisad wrote:
I dunno, I always thought the birth rate was so low because raising kids is too expensive. Food, clothes, education, etc. A lot of people simple cannot afford to raise a kid. That's just my opinion though.

The biggest cost is that someone has to take care of the kids. Since the tax system heavily penalizes hiring child care, usually one adult has to quit working to have kids. That means that it's especially hard for people who actually work for a living to have children, which is kind of problematic.

Vexcalibur wrote:
We can agree that you love your nostalgia-spiced memories of them as babies.

Here's a page I made when my daughter was still a baby, so it wouldn't have been "nostalgia spiced":

http://www.powderhouse.com/~wdew/person ... ks_4_to_8/

Now, maybe when I smile at that page now, I'm looking through rose colored glasses, but I really don't think it seems like I hated babies back then.


Exactly. My mom would drop us off at school really early for latchkey and we'd stay there until a few hours after school ended back when my brother and I was in elementary school. Sometimes we would stay at a friend's house until the school bus or our mom picked us up. We didn't ride the bus regularly until we were about 10-11 years old. Thanks to our school system, we had free child care for about 5 or so years. Luckily, Mom got better hours so we didn't need the latchkey program anymore.

Yeah...my old roommate has a mild/severe autistic sister who's about 26. The state/company/I don't know would give her mom a certain allowance to spend on "babysitters" but she would only get this money if she hired someone that didn't live in the same residence. My roommate got around this by putting her dorm room address. Luckily, PA now allows family members to receive compensation for watching their disabled kin, which is good since she doesn't go to college here anymore since graduating. Sometimes, finding someone who can actually take care of them is too much for a mother to do. Most people would only tolerate that if it's within their own family. It's sad but it's true.

P.S. Your daughter is precious. :heart:



Tim_Tex
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08 Nov 2010, 5:36 pm

I have heard that European birth rates are declining (Russia having the fastest decline), because people are focusing on careers, rather than parenting.


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ruveyn
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08 Nov 2010, 5:38 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
I have heard that European birth rates are declining (Russia having the fastest decline), because people are focusing on careers, rather than parenting.


Indicating a lack of interest in the moderately distant future.

ruveyn



Last edited by ruveyn on 09 Nov 2010, 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

visagrunt
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09 Nov 2010, 11:48 am

Erisad wrote:
I dunno, I always thought the birth rate was so low because raising kids is too expensive. Food, clothes, education, etc. A lot of people simple cannot afford to raise a kid. That's just my opinion though.


QFT.

Gone are the days when children (particularly sons) were a couple's retirement plan.
Gone are the days when infant and child mortality threatened the security of that plan.

Children are wanted. Children are loved. But children are not needed in the way that they once were.


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ruveyn
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09 Nov 2010, 12:16 pm

visagrunt wrote:
Erisad wrote:
I dunno, I always thought the birth rate was so low because raising kids is too expensive. Food, clothes, education, etc. A lot of people simple cannot afford to raise a kid. That's just my opinion though.


QFT.

Gone are the days when children (particularly sons) were a couple's retirement plan.
Gone are the days when infant and child mortality threatened the security of that plan.

Children are wanted. Children are loved. But children are not needed in the way that they once were.


Does anyone here want to be the last living human? Children are needed to avoid that fate.

ruveyn



LKL
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09 Nov 2010, 1:45 pm

In case you hadn't noticed, the world population is still growing. Neither western civilization nor all of humanity is going to end if we start having children at closer to the replacement rate.



skafather84
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09 Nov 2010, 2:01 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Does anyone here want to be the last living human?


The quality of conversation would vastly improve. :P


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psychohist
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09 Nov 2010, 5:11 pm

visagrunt wrote:
Gone are the days when children (particularly sons) were a couple's retirement plan.
Gone are the days when infant and child mortality threatened the security of that plan.

Children are wanted. Children are loved. But children are not needed in the way that they once were.

Children are still needed to support people in their old age. It's just that it needn't be one's own children; other peoples' children can work and pay social security taxes to support one's own retirement.

Sadly, people have not yet recognized that fact to the extent necessary to encourage those other people to have and raise children who will be productive working members of society. That may cause a problem in a few decades.

LKL wrote:
In case you hadn't noticed, the world population is still growing. Neither western civilization nor all of humanity is going to end if we start having children at closer to the replacement rate.

The population growth is happening in areas where children get little semblance of a modern education. The world may not end, but western civilization with its requirements for an educated work force might certainly be displaced.